Getting on to Citalopram - one of the best things this winter!

Yes - provocative as ever, it's time to be out and proud about my anti-depressants and the big difference it's made for me this winter.

Citalopram gets mixed reviews on the various discussion threads. That makes sense - it's not an easy drug to manage for most of us - but I also think it has been excellent for my needs. I could not have sustained a period of ill health - let alone the winter glooms - without some medical support. Yes the leaflet inside the box would cause anyone to think twice about starting, but the drug can be effective if used wisely.

Hi Joel - there's no doubt that it was correctly prescribed given what I was presenting to my GP. I had been feeling low to the point of having suicidal thoughts, albeit fleeting ones. (However - one of the weaknesses in our medical system is that the GP will often have no time to look behind the presenting problem. I was in serious physical decline, something I found out about from my hospital consultant 4 weeks after starting the Citalopram.)

From the very first dose, there was an immediate effect which helped enormously. My body temperature rose significantly - I had been feeling cold to the point of needing hot water bottles and multiple layers of clothing even with me during the day, and meal times! My vision - eyesight, nothing spiritual! - improved, I could see things more sharply and see colour more vividly. So it had an immediate effect, including the inevitable unpleasant side effects that most will know.

Thank you for being the first to join the debate. I am keen to educate myself on this matter and am interested what members have said about their experiences and ways in which to taper off the treatment when in a safe space to do so. I am haunted by Linda's story of intense physical damage on stopping treatment so am not wishing to appear frivolous in setting up a discussion which sets out to present medication in too positive a light.

I've posted an article in Antidepressant Info that reports the findings of a New England Journal of Medicine study which shows that negative RCT results are underreported, and that the ones that are can be misrepresented to show positive results. You can read it here if you want: http://www.thestreet.com/newsanalysis/drugs/10399115.html

I'm also not a rare case. I am in daily contact with people who have had worse damage than me from these drugs. I also know of at least one person, possibly two, who used to talk on this forum, was on citalopram, complained of suicidal thoughts, had their medication increased, and sadly decided to act on those thoughts. Suicidal ideation can be part of depression but it can also be an effect of the drugs, which is one reason they carry a black box warning.

If you and others here feel the drug has helped you, that's fine. Please keep in mind, though, that others have not fared so well. You might dip into some of the articles in the Antidepressant Info topic sometime.

Joel - there is no doubt that any drug can be invested with a belief by the acquirer that it will have magic properties to make me feel better.

But isn't it the same with religion or shopping?

I'm not convinced that anti-depressants deal with depression per se - they take you somewhere else where you can get another view, and maybe give you a space from which you can operate to implement change. That's where I'm at - which I guess is where paulst is too - I'm able to keep my job and lead a normal life.

I suppose that begs the question - should I be operating in that job and that normal life? Is depression telling me there is a mismatch somewhere?

Most of us in the west are shoe-horned into living lives we weren't born for.

Purpleivy and I are singing from the same hymnsheet in that I too have found a medication that underpins me through a period of vulnerability.

I doubt a placebo would last me for very long - I'm far too cynical - had you all not noticed?

My barely disguised irritation on the other discussion thread related to my feeling that there are a number of self-appointed advisers who hover like eagles to spot new arrivals to these discussionswho express concern re AD treatment, and then dive down to counsel and nurture according to the alternative routes - which may be admirable but are also a giant learning curve, and not necessarily a welcome journey for those feeling very vulnerable.

Yes - me too.

Balance essential in diet, activity, rest and good relationships ... nighty night

It is a right to make the personal choice to take a medication yourself, and you should not be criticised for doing so. However, it is also up to you whether you feel comfortable promoting antidepressants for pharmaceutical companies, bearing in mind the associated risks, without entertaining the possibility that perhaps the drug itself has nothing to do with your improvements. Providing an unbiased account of a treatment to aid people making an informed decision, and possible persuasion by promotion, are entirely different things. Personally, I see nothing wrong with remaining unbiased (says the past hypocrite) when describing personal treatments – it’s just a lot more longwinded.

People diagnosed with SAD do take part in clinical trials, and some of them have had various reactions to different treatments throughout their lives. They also have to be in remission each summer to qualify, and yet some of them also respond and even remit in winter when using placebo devices such as deactivated negative ion generators or taking placebo pills in RCTs. I cannot possibly begin to explain why some even remit under placebo conditions, and I expect that they can’t either, but surely that does open up the possibility they maybe SAD isn’t as inevitable without sunlight as we think? I am currently trying to console myself that they were just a bunch of numpties who didn’t really have SAD.

Aaron, I don’t think anyone was meant to be born into a world where they are subordinate to bits of numbered paper and numbers on screens. I do cynical rather well myself.

Couldn’t agree more with the balance list.

Here's the hovering eagle. I'd like to briefly explain why I give the advice that I do, to people who seem to want it (notice I say nothing to people who are happy with their meds -- that's the course they obviously want to pursue). Diet, supplements, elimination of environmental toxins, etc, seem to be viewed by most as "alternative" treatments that can, if desired, be selected from a range of other treatment options which also include drugs. The thing is, these "alternative" methods are the ones that actually heal, while options like drugs eliminate (if you're lucky) the symptoms but leave the underlying cause of illness unaddressed. And the drugs themselves can cause their own problems.

You don't have to agree with me, but I will share what works with people who are open to it because I know the knowledge can help them. Sorry if this grates a bit but I rarely talk on this forum so maybe you can humour me when I occasionally do.

Here here aaron, Linda your advice is valuable but do respect other people's choices. I too have started an antidepressant, citalopram to be precise after trying months of 'herbal' remedies, alternative therapies and balanced diet. It is not an easy choice for people to make, sometimes you have to accept that you need extra help.

Perhaps I am being misunderstood?

I am not saying antidepressants don’t work, but neither am I saying that they do work as advertised.

All I am saying is that are an infinite number of things that can have a bearing on SAD, depression, and even somatic symptoms.

Time and circumstances change, and even people who don’t respond to a placebo at one time, respond to it at another; just as those who claim to respond to a treatment at one time, fail to respond to the same treatment at another.

Some people who take placebo do also report dramatic physical effects after the first dose, and beyond.

Some people who take placebo also report side-effects and adverse events (nocebo effects).

If we talk about risk we generally talk about it in terms of probability. The same is true of the effectiveness of a treatment. At any time there is the probability that any treatment is: directly effective, effective by means of placebo effect, partially effective, not effective but spontaneous remission occurs, ineffective, adverse, harmful, fatal etc.

I assume that nobody else wants to admit to being duped by placebo, and selects treatments based on their apparent effectiveness as we have been told or read about them?

No current treatments for SAD and depression are 100% effective, and if we take an example antidepressants, say bupropion XL (the only one licensed for SAD anywhere in the world), we can clearly see this. The GSK study used to get bupropion licensed for SAD in the US published that bupropion prevented SAD in 84% of, and placebo in 72% of, the relevant treatment groups. I do not even have to use science and mathematics to tear the study apart; from the published results alone I can infer that, with each patient taking bupropion who thinks that it is the drug preventing their SAD symptoms, it is likely placebo effect or unrelated events at least 72% of the time. Therefore, anyone taking bupropion could only be at most 28% sure that it actually the drug helping them, based on GSKs assessment of the SAD population.

Unfortunately there is no current method to prove exactly what is responsible for improvements in SAD and depression, or to prove what part individual treatments play in those improvements.

Mentioning side-effects is not the same as pointing out that your improvement may not be directly related to the treatment. Omitting that reality, no matter how much you don’t want to admit it’s possibility, is falsely promoting the effectiveness of a treatment – whether the claim of effectiveness is complete remission or just being helpful. The treatment in this case is citalopram, but it could also be light therapy, or any other treatment.

I would edit my old posts if I could (why I did mention my hypocrisy), which were made at a very bad and emotional time, but Lumie has taken away that facility. However, since I have been reminded just how bad some of my comments were, I’ll track down the threads (something else made more difficult by the new forum) and tack on amendment posts.

Aaron would you care to address the actual statement that Joel has made?

You are promoting the drug by telling people in the topic of this thread how helpful it's been for you. This is what you often see in commercials in the US.

There are risks associated with these drugs, though these tend not to be mentioned by people who have not themselves experienced side effects, and who believe they feel better because of the drug.

There is a possibility that improvements you feel are due to placebo or other factors. Note Joel said "possibility," which is in keeping with known results from clinical trials.

What is there in Joel's statement that you don't agree with?

Whatever we choose to do has an effect on our bodies. Some people choose to fill their systems with alcohol, non-prescription drugs and nicotine. There are risks associated with all of these things, not everyone gets the nasty side effects, but it doesn't stop people using them. Some of these things are even legal, but they make me feel worse, so I don't use them! Prescription medication is legal and it makes me feel better, so from time to time I choose to take it.

Perhaps it's a placebo and I just think I feel better, but I understood that a placebo was an inert substance. If antidepressant medication is an inert substance, why do people get so hung up about folks taking such dangerous substances. LOL! Just to explain to those of you that have had a SOHB, it's meant in jest. Funny Ha-Ha.

The next bit isn't meant in jest. Why is it that Person A is allowed to be prejudiced against something round here and Person B isn't?

This all has been rather horrific, frankly.

I apologized on the other thread, but then I come here and see this and have mixed feelings.

I imagine that I'll be grouped with the "Linda's of the world." I'm not sure if my viewpoint is welcome here... in separate threads or otherwise. I've been on both sides of the debate... at the end of last year, I asked my doctor for a wellbutrin script. Some things I've read since then from a credible source made me re-think. One thing I felt comfortable with is the support I was getting from this group. We were getting along quite well for awhile there.

HI suzie thanks for your post, its the most sensible thing I have read on here for a long time.

Does this mean that I can rejoin you on this interesting subject without getting stressed and adding to my newly found anxiety?

I really do hope so.



Me x

I have been on a 20mg daily dose of Citalapram for about 10 years now after experiencing depression,which could only be described as "peering into Hells Abyss"...They have helped me enormously...Because I have been on them for so long..i suppose the side effects now are part and parcel of everyday life..The alternative( stop taking the tablets) doesnt bare thinking about

Oh, deep in my heart,
I do believe,
That Pills
Will give me
Thrills
All day ...

Sorry to be cheeky once again, but am enjoying three days SAD relief in the south of France! I'm sorry to have started a debate that has upset people, but in a perverse way, I guess, I find it useful.

Aaron, drug companies advertise on TV in the US. It is now a large source of revenue for networks.

Since you said you took offense at Joel's statement in a previous post, I asked you to explain how it was actually erroneous. I don't believe he's posted volumes here, and the topic of his posts has been consistent and quite narrow.

I think there are simply many people here who are struggling through the winter; and when you are particularly low and anxious, it can be upsetting to read threads where people are debating, sometimes hotly. Maybe it's important to keep that in mind. However, I also don't think that means we should all behave as if we are walking on eggshells.

I am used to talking on some forums where active debate is their very raison d'etre. They tend to be about other things, e.g. creationism and evolution. I've been flamed horrendously by some creationists, as well as some hardline skeptics; anything that's been said here by the most diametrically opposed viewpoints is a mild disagreement between friends by comparison. Generally I'm inclined to be quiet but sometimes I figure I may as well speak up, since my PoV is as valid as anyone else's and I know I'm probably unique here in what I am saying -- for better or for worse, you are welcome to decide for yourself.

Pretty harsh, aaron... and not the sentiment at all.

On the other hand, there are those of us who have thought about drugs to deal with the depression and who have decided against it who also don't know how to respond to this message board any longer.

Especially since this is escalating rather than improving. One thing we have in common is that we all come here for support... no matter what our views.

Hmmm, I wrote that last comment on Friday, but only sent it today. Since then a major flame-war seems to have broken out regarding "promotion" of pharma products for depression, which I only saw after I refreshed the page.

Since I have inadvertently joined the flame-war by siding with Aaron, I'd like to add my two penn'orth on the conflict, and maybe help calm things down a bit by expressing what I hope is common sense. I'd also like to clarify my comments a bit.

I don't believe for a moment that Aaron's intention in starting the thread was commercial promotion of Citalopram, any more than mine was. We're both, for very different and very good reasons, taking the drug and reporting back on its effects on SAD: that's all.

If it leads to others trying out an SSRI or SNRI for their own conditions, well, why not? I certainly gain no personal benefit from my comments, and I doubt that Aaron does.

I'd certainly recommend chronic migraine sufferers have a chat with their docs to consider whether it would be worth trying low-dose SSRIs as a therapeutic experiment, as migraine is often seratonin-sensitive. Any long-term sufferer will understand the utter relief of an abatement of what's a debilitating condition.

I wouldn't personally recommend them as a sole treatment for mild to moderate SAD, because they give symptomatic relief of only one part of the condition, and you have to go through a pain barrier both starting and finishing with them. Even with SSRI/SNRI support, SAD sufferers may well still find themselves with sleep regulation issues, daytime fatigue, and all the other delightful results we're all only too familiar with. I know I do, which is why light therapy also helps me. That said, if the depression's really severe, some pharma support may well be advisable, in addition to the light therapy. Sometimes, SAD exacerbates an underlying condition, and then light therapy certainly won't be a one-stop-shop cure.

OK, this is a forum hosted by a maker of SAD lights, and we can expect contributors to be generally well-disposed to non-pharma treatments for SAD, but it's pretty harsh to be firing off nuclear-tipped missiles at anyone who considers or tries other remedies.

Before you think to do so, please bear in mind that people with SAD (that's all of us, right?) are more easily "knocked back" at this time of year than at any other. Being aggressive and hurtful might have more serious consequences than you might have intended.

Please, be gentle out there.

Oh dear - looks like this is gonna continue to Spring then!!

Wake me up when youre done!

Me x

Yes, you need a break.

Also posted on another thread but applicable here:

I'm not shouting at you Amalthea or asking you to shut your mouth.

That's okay as long as you accept that it's you who's doing the shouting. It's wearing me out.

Linda, I do agree that we should be supporting and we should certainly not be insulting.

The bombshell I posted - " If you are such a LOSER as to make the ILL-CONSIDERED decision to take DRUGS to deal with your depression, please have the DECENCY to keep QUIET about it. " - was my attempt to summarise how I'd been responded to, both here and elsewhere.

I don't live in the States and I am in fact barred from being there because of a communicable disease (not that I have any intention of communicating it). I have no idea what is advertised on your television and if the drug companies are or appear to be behaving in a way such as to persuade people on to ADs in an irresponsible way - well that's dubious practise but one of which I was completely unaware.

It may surprise the members but I am also someone of some sensitivity despite appearing frivolous. Maybe it's because I'm from the UK, not the US. Maybe it's because I am a man and the majority of contributors are not.

Allow me to remind you of how you started this thread if I may:

"Yes - provocative as ever, it's time to be out and proud about my anti-depressants"

If you deliberately set out to be provocative, then you need to be ready to accept that some people will explain to you why they disagree with you. That's what I did here, quite briefly. I've posted other information elsewhere in designated threads.

If you find the disagreement unpleasant then why not stick to supportive discussion threads, rather than threads like this one which encourage dissent. Also, it is very rare for someone to hold the views I do about drugs and alt med. I am essentially one voice giving an alternative view -- hardly the powers that be, hardly an active force here trying to pressurise people about their decisions.

The following statement is a completely inaccurate summary of what I have said: " If you are such a LOSER as to make the ILL-CONSIDERED decision to take DRUGS to deal with your depression, please have the DECENCY to keep QUIET about it. " I suggest you take my statements at face value and drop the idea that I am trying to persecute you.

Dear All, this will possibly be a big surprise to you all ...

3 weeks ago I was admitted to hospital with pneumonia. A day later the pneumococcus entered my brain and I was paralyzed for 36 hours. Thanks to a doctor who devoted his entire efforts to nursing me (including staying in the hospital overnight to be nearby) - catheters, lumbar punctures, and IV anti-biotics - and my sister and my partner who whispered things in my ear to keep me as much in this world as possible - I eventually "woke up" and am glad that I have been able to return to life.

Needless to say I couldn't take my anti-retroviral medicine during that time, and the hospital took me off citalopram as they felt any further intrusion could possibly interfere with the paralysis.

When it got closer to the time for me to leave the hospital, the news of antidepressants was filling the newspapers - and I had some useful converations with the consultants about ADs, and have made the decision not to resume. I'm so glad to be alive, depression isn't an option. And anyhow since I'm now receiving treatment for epilepsy (although this is very unlikely) it is quite enough pill popping for both morning and evening.

So forced out of ADS, and the spring is here, and I'm glad to be alive .... Yes, I do believe it helped but I'm not sure I was depressed in November for psychological reasons, but due to a severely damaged immune system.

I hope this helps balance out some of the extreme feelings that yours truly expressed in earlier weeks.

I wish you all well, but am likely to have a break now - to catch up on living.

Axx

Purpleivy, wonderful to see your pic again. Hug, Ax

Thanks jonsg. Yes, truly scary - but great to have rejoined the world.

Thanks Me! Yes it was a profound shock but the care I received from the hospital, with the love of my family was astonishing. I've been propelled back into life and of course, now spring. It is truly amazing to be alive. Ax

Aaron,
How frightening that all had to be! I'm so glad to hear you're back and feeling well! I'm sorry for any grief I gave you, but you know how argumentative SAD can make us all. I hope you'll forgive.
I will actually be on a low dose of Trazodone as a sedative because of the sleep abnormalities caused by fibromyalgia. This is something, as you can imagine, that I do have mixed feelings about, but it's on a real "trial run" basis. I say this a bit sheepishly... I do feel strongly -- to the point I cried in the Dr.'s office, but none of the available alternatives seemed very promising.

Heather

As are you, Aaron! I'll see you around here, but hopefully as we near Spring, you're feeling an improvement. If that's the reason you disappear for awhile, I understand. That's why I've been semi-absent lately.

Hi I have been taking citralopam for nearly a year. My Doc started me on 10mg and increased it till I am now taking 50mg per day. I certainly dont think any placebo could have made me feel the way I did at the start. I phisically could not get out of bed and I was constantly sick. I stuck with it and very gradually felt better. I have suffered depr. all my life and been put on much different medications and hospitalised many times,seen many consultants etc. etc. Ive got to say this is the best I have ever felt. Ive also been put on placebos,obviously without my knoledge and I did not react to them. I no citralopam does not suit everyone but it did me.

Hi Sweetfee,

This really isn't the right place to ask. These forums are all about Seasonal Affective Disorder, and lightbox solutions for it; the thread was started by a lightbox user who needed a little additional pharma support, beyond what light therapy was providing.

You'll get better advice from forums and web pages that are centred on prescription drug usage. A number of people here are users of citalopram, but you'll really only get a few bits of anecdotal evidence here, which is certainly not a good basis on which to decide your use of a prescription drug.

In any case, as you'll have seen if you've read through the whole thread, there's a deal of antagonism from some quarters against pharma solutions for SAD, and also about non-SAD-related postings. I hope you don't catch any buckshot for it!

Hello - I started Citalopram 20mg New Years Eve - I was sick of crying all the time and feeling blue and not sleeping and having anxiety attacks - I suffer from SAD and have done for some years. Tried everything else, light boxes, excercise, 5-HTP - everything (I swore I would never take anti-depressents). Anyway I have a very supportive doctor who is monitoring me closely) now that I am taking them. I was a little shaky at first with side effects and lost quite a bit of weight - never a bad thing - but have never felt better. Am down to 10mg now and am aiming to be off them by end of June. They work for me and if I need again next winter I shall be taking them. I'm just letting people know my experience that's all. HI PURPLE IVY LTNS xx

hi everyone, ive been having panic attacks for 5 years now, iam 26 and id been on saroxat for 2 years a year ago. they did help but sent me aggresive? so i stopped, i coped with horrific attacks for the past year, feeling faint, worried about heart attacks, iam always that nervous i find myself chewing everything, i love to have a drink but hangovers send panic alarms to my head, always need a drink of water with mew incase i need liquid? ive been on citalopram for 4 days now, they have been sat in my room for 6 months, but its come to the point that i need to listen to my docter! i really can say i feel better????? i havnt had a drink because being happy and normal at this point is what i want to acheive, i will stay intouch to let anybody know how i get on, also be reading on other reports, anything can be better than fast pulse, worried, sweaty confused panic!

Mine wore off after approx 2 weeks. I felt a little detatched to start with - a bit forgetful, shaky, almost wired but it goes, and they start working after about 3-4 weeks - well for me they did. Good luck Karen.

My sleeping pattern was wonky at first and again like you Rob couldn't nod off - but after about a month I was fine... Can't get up now!!! LOL

Time for another gentle reminder that these forums are about seasonal affective disorder (and light therapy solutions), not pharma.

However, a word to Rob - you're getting some pretty standard side-effects of starting on citalopram.

Bruxus (tooth-grinding) and insomnia/broken sleep are absolutely usual, as are mood swings and either impotence or delayed orgasm. It generally takes a couple of weeks for them to wear off, although the psychosexual symptoms often take a long time to ease up - SSRIs are sometimes prescribed for premature ejaculation!

Right now, it feels like your head's out of control. Don't worry! Keep telling yourself that you're not going nuts, it's just a temporary brain chemistry thing, and that you won't have to put up with the side-effects for much longer - and just tough it out. When your system's settled down again, you will wonder what all the fuss was about!

One other thing - best to lay off the booze until you're settled. It won't be helping your head chemistry, whilst it's in disarray.

thats true, it will stop!!!

Re: teeth-grinding

I had to get a "bruxism guard" to protect my teeth. I am a teeth-grinder (from Fibromyalgia, but I also have SAD).

The bruxism guard cost me $250, but should hopefully prevent $1xxx's of dental work later on. Also did a good job of getting rid of my clickety-jaw. The guards last about 2 years, possibly longer depending on how badly you grind and how well you care for guards, I suppose. I will try to get lots of years out of mine.

Mine fits over the bottom teeth so I can talk and drink while it's in. I hear they're more comfortable that way.

how long where you on citalopram for, ive been on them for just over a week now, and also feel strange at times, dizzy, little confussed, tierdness? i hope this is just for a short period only!!!! thanks

been on them 6 months and feel normal - you will feel weird for the first few weeks only. Try not to think about it. I quite liked the feeling of being detatched it was better than being miserable

Glad that they are working for you Dave. I'm coming off them now and after 8 months and having no problems and am looking forward to a better sex life - my only complaint so far (HOPEFULLY)!! I found that I worried about NOTHING on 20mg. I even tried to make myself worry but couldn't so for someone who is an avid worrier and anxious in winter it has been great. Not sure coming off them before winter is wise, but I can always go back!! LOL :-)

I would agree that the most difficult thing about antidepressants is feeling able to take the plunge begin taking them, if that is what has been recommended by your GP and also if you feel it will be helpful to you.

The problem is with all medication, not just antidepressants is that whatever you take may not necessarily suit you for whatever reason. For this reason some people get disillusioned and give up without giving the med a chance to work, or worse still abruptly stopping the medication.

There is a point for many people where the SJW and lightbox aren't enough.

Awwww, kind words from you too Hadrian.

Well said.

The first year I took citalopram I thought it was great. I withdrew gradually in April with no adverse effects. However, I also had an 8 week holiday in Oz and NZ between mid January and mid March. Last year I took it again but I didn't have a winter break and I suffered badly to the extent that in April my husband booked us a trip to Jamaica for 2 weeks in January 2009 in the hope that it works like the Oz trip. I had used my repeat prescription to pick up a packet to use this year but noticed that it is now contra-indicated for people with heart disease such as arrhythmia which I have (controlled by a pacemaker). As this concerns me and holidays are proving a somewhat expensive way of coping I am considering purchasing a light box with Bluewave spectrum light which is the one which most accurately mimics sunlight apparently. Does anyone have experience of this?

Let's put it like this curlyperkins...people don't die of SAD. Their lives are greatly inconvenienced and they feel cr*p, but realistically there are a lot more important things that they need to spend £££ on. There is only a pot of a certain size and there are many more conditions that people aren't able to get treatments for these days that they might have in the past. All down to the fact that the NHS, like the rest of us, has a budget.

Donna - from what you're saying, you're dealing with a condition more severe than lightboxes and herbal pills can be expected to help. They're OK for mild depression, but if you're getting suicidal impulses then tackling them with drugstore supplements and lightboxes is like trying to down planes with flyspray.

You must, absolutely must, make an appointment with your physician, and get professional assistance, this time round. You owe that to yourself. It sounds to me that what you have is not SAD, it's a _treatable_ underlying condition that's being exacerbated by SAD. The first step back to a calm, _normal_ life is to make that call and get yourself to the doc's.

Sorry to be so strong in my words, but I want you to stop and think. For you, the risk is that self-medicating and self-treating are only avoidance strategies. You need to find the strength to make the call, and talk to someone qualified to help you.

Thank you for having the courage to be open about your symptoms. That's not easy, even if all people know is your first name.

I wish you peace and love, and look forward to hearing about your progress!

Donna, as they say in catch me if you can... "I concur".

It sounds like you could really do with some support. If you can afford it, a regular therapy session would be really good. For me therapy was a base from which I could explore possible solutions to my problems, it also helped me put medication into some perspective.

Also as an extra to sharons walking advice I would say do each and every walk (or other exercise/outdoor activity) on its own merit. If you feel like you have to walk everyday you'll just blame yourself if you dont. Go for a walk right now instead: Because the sun is shining, you need some milk, or maybe you like the rain on your face. Every single walk you do is better than one you dont: so walk today. You will never have to walk tomorrow or yesterday!!!

All of the stuff you describe is understandable and many people have been through similar feelings I'm sure. From here you sound like you are already well on your way to dealing with the worst of the stuff you are going through. Talking about it with such clarity is not as easy as it might seem. Keep well and let us all know how you are doing :)

I stand corrected...

I'm glad you find 'talking therapies' helpful CP, but it's not something everyone wants, nor feels will help them. I can't believe that these are cheaper than medications either. It would cost more to fund someone to talk to me every week than the cost of medications I take through the winter I think.

Hi Aaron,
I was on Citalopram for a few years until very recently, and I found it ENORMOUSLY helpful, along with counselling and CBT, which were also tremendously helpful.
The thing is, all medication is risky, but taken in the correct doses and with the appropriate support, it is a Godsend. I was initally put on Fluoxetine but it didn't work at all for my second Winter, and I was spiralling downwards.. fast. Within a week of starting Citalopram, I began to feel better, and the huge suffocating emptiness began to subside.
I came off the tablets around July this year, and am now attempting to go through the Winter without them. I have tried before, and found I had to go back on, but we'll see what happens this year.
Good luck to you,
Mrs Stan.

I did the Expert Patient Programme this time last year and found it somewhat helpful. The only problem I found with it was it was all based around PMA (Positive Mental Attitude). I was fine for the early part of it but then when the SAD started kicking in I found it alot harder to have this "PMA" and was actually ridiculed by one of the people running it for not completing my task set from the previous week cause I felt like crap. I ended up in tears and felt like a right pillock in front of everyone.

The only problem I have with talking therapies is they are great when you are having them but when they stop you are just back to square one again!

If I could meet up with a group on a weekly basis and have that support from people who understand (like on the forum) that would be really helpful to me but unfortunately thats not always possible.

Kirk - I'm not being funny about this, really I'm not, but if you're drinking alcohol for the effect, perhaps it's no bad thing to lose some of the incentive.

Thank you so much guys for all your support and advice and for taking me seriously. I have only just read your replies after been away on holiday. I went to Belgium and like in the UK, we had lovely sunshine. It was lovely to feel normal once again after have a bad winter start this year but I am aware that things are going to get bad for me this winter. Anyway, I have listened to your advice and I have a doctors appointment for Wednesday afternoon to talk about AD. I will keep you posted. yes I am more open about my SAD this year and have never opened up about my suicidal thoughts before. I get them most years with SAD but I really don't think I can cope another year of them. My poor partner goes through hell too when I have what I call a SAD attack! Sometimes I feel SAD creeping up on me but sometimes I don't and it comes out from nowhere surprising me. Anyway, thank you so much once again and I will let you know how it goes. Look after yourselves xx

Thank you jonsq!

I have been to see the Doctor this afternoon and I did tell him about my suicidal thoughts as you advised! He has started me on Citalopram 10mg and to be reviewed in one months time. I was hoping for 20mg but I suppose I need to be patient.

Anyway, how are you doing? Hope you are well.

Thank you for the advice once again jonsg!

I took my first dose last night and slept in very well this morning as still on holiday from work.

I kind of feel calm like when I have taken Nytol. Feels nice and yes I will be patient with the side effects I may experience in the next couple of weeks.

Am so happy that you are doing well. Thats really good news indeed.

Take care.

The calming effects do start quite quickly. It'll take 2-3 days for the first of the ramp-up side-effects to kick in. If yours are like mine, you might well, for a day or too, be high as a kite to start with -- enjoy!

Hello,

Just to give an update now that I have been taking Citalopram 10mg for 2 weeks. It certainly has taken the edge off feeling anxious! A big test for me was on Saturday going to the supermarket when it was quite busy. Well normally I would get very panicky and need to leave soon but instead, I could cope alot better which is so unusual for me! I know its early days, but I do feel that these AD have prevented me getting panic attacks. I wish I tried AD years ago!

I know there are darker days around the corner and I will ask my GP to up my dose to 20mg in 2 weeks time, but I feel much calmer and less stressed.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this news because if this can help anyone else, then I am a happy bunny!!!!

I hope everyone is doing well x

Hi Heather,
I wish you good luck with starting the Cymbalta. I don't think we have that in the UK but does it help with both depression and fibromyalgia? I hope it makes you feel better. Let me know how you get on.

Donna x

Hang on in there Heather!

Good luck, I hope you start to feel the benefits very very soon and yes do let us know how you are getting on,

Take care,

Donna x

Hi Everyone

Well it is almost "clocks forward" time so as you can guess I am feeling more than okay at the moment. This year I really tried to use a positive mental approach, and that, with my light box and dawn simulator really helped (plus fluoxetine!).Suzie said in her post that if she could meet up once a week with other SAD sufferers, it would help. Well this has helped me as I see two other SADs at my gym and we have a "check in" and bit of mutual support. I can't emphasize how much this has helped me, after trudging on alone for 12 years. I also feel convinced that my gym sessions have made me feel better, I belong to Curves which is only a 30 minute work out but it gives me such a positive feel, even in the winter!
This may seem too simplistic, but I am retricted in what meds I can take because of other serious health problems. It's worth a try!!!

I have just recently started taking citalopram (20mg) and have found it to be very helpful. I suffer from Hightened anxiety and continually worry about almost everything. I couldn't function properly before i started taking AD's and felt like my old self was just slipping away from me. It's quite difficult to explain as i know everyone's experienceis different. Now that i have been takind AD's for two weeks i feel thy are of a huge benefit to me. I feel, gradually, that i am becoming more myself again and am feeling less worried and panicy. I noe longer have that knotted feeling in the pit of my stomach and generally am feeling alot brighter. I have had a few side effects, such as feeling nausious, shaky and weight gain. I don't like the idea of gaining weight but that completely balances out the feeling of wellbeing i have experienced.

L.

The citalopram does all that in the winter when I take it for SAD, but I would rather have a winter like that than the alternative of not being able to cope with everyday stuff.

Almost all medication has side effects and it's up to the user to decide if it's worth it or not. For me it is.