Diagnosis (28 Sep 02) 12messages

final update from old forum

Topic: Diagnosis
posted by Diane on 2001-11-08 16:56:10




I have read several of the other messages in this forum and I am very interested to see that other people have managed to have SAD Diagnosed.
How did you manange that? I have suffered with depression for many years, but I have recently realised that my depression is actually worse in the winter and it gets better when the weather improves.
I have suggested to my GP that I believe taht I suffer with SAD and their advice was to take PROZAC everydayt in the winter and every other day in the summer!! I feel very let down by this but I am not able either physically or mentally to fight much harder to get more help.
I work part-time and have found that although I love my job I really would rather not workin the winter but I know that this has a catch 22 situation, because if I don't work I feel much iller and no more able to cope.
I would love to hear any ideas how I can get a better deal from my GP!
Regards to everyone
Diane


Sharon

Topic: Re: Diagnosis
posted by Sharon on 2001-11-10 15:15:08







Hi Diane,

Don't know about getting SAD diagnosed officially but would suggest you try contacting the SAD Association. SADA PO Box 989, STEYNING BN44 3HG

They do an introductory pack - which includes a handout for the informing of GPs, written in GP type language too. Mine was quite pleased to receive his - or told me he was at least! They also do quarterly newsletters which include rundowns on the latest therapies & how they are working - or not. And it only costs L12 per year.

Hope this is of some help to you. Sharon


Sharon

Topic: Re: Diagnosis
posted by Sharon on 2001-11-10 15:15:57







Hi Diane,

Don't know about getting SAD diagnosed officially but would suggest you try contacting the SAD Association. SADA PO Box 989, STEYNING BN44 3HG email SADA.org.uk (or something like that)

They do an introductory pack - which includes a handout for the informing of GPs, written in GP type language too. Mine was quite pleased to receive his - or told me he was at least! They also do quarterly newsletters which include rundowns on the latest therapies & how they are working - or not. And it only costs L12 per year.

Hope this is of some help to you. Sharon


Carlos H. Pena

Topic: Re: Diagnosis
posted by Carlos H. Pena on 2001-12-22 10:48:42







Hi Diane:

I am a firm believer that all problems identified in our body can be solved by using the power of our mind.

Depression is not an illness, it is a state of mind. As such, it should never be treated with PROZAC or any other medication.

The best way to fight depression (including SAD) is by a daily commitment to be O.K., well, better, Great, Awesome!!!.

This may sound weird to you, but let me tell you: if you replace the expressions I am down, I feel like s... today, Oh What a day.. it is only Monday morning.., etc. you will be a winner. You will never use Prozac in your life and you will be able to enjoy your money better. Buying other things that will boost your sense of happiness and worth.

My best advise. Start NOW!!! thinking about you as being the owner of a powerful mind. You will be O.K. no matter what kind of weather is like out there. Because I am sure that that there are many people in the world that ARE NOT WILLING TO BE HAPPY, not even in the middle of the brightest day (In summer, in Spring).

Diane: My advise to you is simple and free: Make a personal commitment with yourself to be happy, every minute of your life. It is easy! If you believe it's possible.!! Then no matter what season it is, you will be like the pine tree: No matter what season it is, it is there!. Can you imagine what could happen to the world if the Pine Tree (Christmas Tree) would give up one day and decided to be depressed in the dead of winter????.

I have used this strategy all my life. It has made me strong in the worst moments of my life (when you are jobless, penniless, with no friends), and I have risen to the highest peaks I have ever imagined. You can do it, too.!!!!

I am a Consultant in Self-improvement and have developed a Seminar called: VISION DE FUTURO! How to develop an EVERLASTING POWERFUL SUCCESSSFUL MIND!

The real Power is in YOU! BELIEVE IN YOU AND YOUR LIFE WILL CHANGE FOREVER.!!!

Have a Wonderful Christmas. Please receive from me the best gift I could give you: The Discovery of you own self. On Christmas Morning you will remember these words and you will repeat them:(Start with your hands on your chest and open them slowly, and repeat): Today I will open the best present of all...Myself... to the beauty of a new life: a Life of happiness.



Karl

Topic: Re: Diagnosis
posted by Karl on 2002-01-03 17:21:51








Hi,

I have read around the the subject of depression. I am no expert, or consultant, but I do know my SAD is seasonal. I also believe that there is some brain chemistry involved as discussed int he winter Blues

But I recognise where you are coming from. I have had some success with books like Cognitive Therapy and Im OK your OK.

I do have to say, however, that the light box really does work and in just a couple of weeks. I used it a couple of years before I descovered St Johns. Now I rely less on the light box but still use it.

Thanks for pointing out your alternative, and I am prepared to read what you have to say. Have you published, and can I have a transcript?

Kind Regards,

Karl



Steph

Topic: Re: Diagnosis
posted by Steph on 2002-01-11 15:06:14








Diane,

If you read the bit about SAD on www.outsidein.co.uk, at the bottom there is a bit called symptom scoring table. Try printing this off and taking it to discuss with your doctor.

I sympathise with you, I know how hard and frustrating it is when you are not listened to, but luckily my doctor is ok with it, and diagnosed it for me in 1997. I was only 14 at the time, and so I had a lot of 'you're too young for that' and 'it's all in your head'from other people.

Stick with it. If your doctor still refuses to help, I'd suggest seeing another.

All the best, Steph


Cathryn
MacKinlay

Topic: My my of dealing with SAD
posted by Cathryn MacKinlay on 2002-01-19 03:21:36






Diane:

Please pleas please take absolutely no notice of Carlos!

He quite clearly has never had SAD.

This is my way of reasoning what happens every winter. The fact is that SAD is a chemical imbalance in the brain which has origins in evolutionary history when our distant ancestors may well have hibernated during the winter. Hibernating animals know when to go into hibernation because the shortened day light hours alters the amount of melatonin released in their brains. Just like sheep will respond to the levels of light to know when to mate so that their lambs are born during spring when food is plentiful.

It seems that some people have retained part of the mechanism found in hibernating animals and are therefore more sensitive to changes in season. In my opinion (REMEMBER THESE ARE ONLY PEOPLES OPINIONS AND YOU MUST DECIDE YOURSELF HOW TO YOU CAN MAKE SOME KIND OF SENSE OF SAD).

When I have SAD I feel as if I have a heavy rock in my stomach which makes me feel sick. I am too paranoid and scared to speak to people. If I hear people whispering I asume they are laughing at me. If the phone rings I panic. To me it is an illness. Suggesting that you can solve it my a load of positive thinking is absurd. I prefer logic. If I am ill, I get treatment. Take some action. Firstly, buy and read The Winter Blues by Norman E. Rosenthal, M.D. Secondly Buy yourself a light box. I know they might seem expensive but I have had mine for 3 years now and I can quite honestly say that it has changed my life. I could not live without it and have never looked back.

By replacing the light you are replacing the levels of melatonin in your brain. Far more logical than saying the I will be happy today will alter the chemical balance of your brain. You make up your own mind though.

In reply to : Re: Diagnosis posted by Carlos H. Pena on 2001-12-22 13:48:42:

: Hi Diane:
:
: I am a firm believer that all problems identified in our body can be solved by using the power of our mind.
:
: Depression is not an illness, it is a state of mind. As such, it should never be treated with PROZAC or any other medication.
:
: The best way to fight depression (including SAD) is by a daily commitment to be O.K., well, better, Great, Awesome!!!.
:
: This may sound weird to you, but let me tell you: if you replace the expressions I am down, I feel like s... today, Oh What a day.. it is only Monday morning.., etc. you will be a winner. You will never use Prozac in your life and you will be able to enjoy your money better. Buying other things that will boost your sense of happiness and worth.
:
: My best advise. Start NOW!!! thinking about you as being the owner of a powerful mind. You will be O.K. no matter what kind of weather is like out there. Because I am sure that that there are many people in the world that ARE NOT WILLING TO BE HAPPY, not even in the middle of the brightest day (In summer, in Spring).
:
: Diane: My advise to you is simple and free: Make a personal commitment with yourself to be happy, every minute of your life. It is easy! If you believe it's possible.!! Then no matter what season it is, you will be like the pine tree: No matter what season it is, it is there!. Can you imagine what could happen to the world if the Pine Tree (Christmas Tree) would give up one day and decided to be depressed in the dead of winter????.
:
: I have used this strategy all my life. It has made me strong in the worst moments of my life (when you are jobless, penniless, with no friends), and I have risen to the highest peaks I have ever imagined. You can do it, too.!!!!
:
: I am a Consultant in Self-improvement and have developed a Seminar called: VISION DE FUTURO! How to develop an EVERLASTING POWERFUL SUCCESSSFUL MIND!
:
: The real Power is in YOU! BELIEVE IN YOU AND YOUR LIFE WILL CHANGE FOREVER.!!!
:
: Have a Wonderful Christmas. Please receive from me the best gift I could give you: The Discovery of you own self. On Christmas Morning you will remember these words and you will repeat them:(Start with your hands on your chest and open them slowly, and repeat): Today I will open the best present of all...Myself... to the beauty of a new life: a Life of happiness.
:



Melissa

Topic: Re: My my of dealing with SAD
posted by Melissa on 2002-01-19 05:24:30









Carlos really has no idea what he is talking about. How can positive thinking change a chemical imbalance in the brain? My doctor diagnosed SAD after I ended up in accident and emergency suffering from what was later diagnosed as a panic attack. He had known me since I was a child and realised that I had visited him with 'strange sypmtoms' every winter. I must say that I did't believe him at first because the symptoms were affecting me so physically. It is four years since I was diagnosed and am taking medication as well as light therapy.

I wish people were more aware of how SAD feels and that it is not 'a state of mind'.
Melissa


Donna

Topic: Re: My my of dealing with SAD
posted by Donna on 2002-01-19 14:19:32







I agree totally with Cathryn & Melissa,sorry Carlos but you obviously do not know what it's like to suffer from S.A.D.

When you are feeling so low and may be suicidal,there is no way that you can be positive.It is out of your control & that is what is so frustrating about S.A.D.

My light box has helped me,and I did take Prozac for a year too,but you know your own body & you have to listen to it.If one of us says that we find St Johns Wort is great for them,the next person may find that they get on better with the light box & may be Prozac too.You may need to try different things to find what suits you best.

Bye for now all!In reply to : Re: My my of dealing with SAD posted by Melissa on 2002-01-19 08:24:30:

: Carlos really has no idea what he is talking about. How can positive thinking change a chemical imbalance in the brain? My doctor diagnosed SAD after I ended up in accident and emergency suffering from what was later diagnosed as a panic attack. He had known me since I was a child and realised that I had visited him with 'strange sypmtoms' every winter. I must say that I did't believe him at first because the symptoms were affecting me so physically. It is four years since I was diagnosed and am taking medication as well as light therapy.
:
: I wish people were more aware of how SAD feels and that it is not 'a state of mind'.
: Melissa



Benjamin L

Topic: Re: Diagnosis
posted by Benjamin L on 2002-09-16 09:25:54









Depression is a very real and complicated problem. In fact, 28 million people take some form of anti-depressant every year. Although the entire biological process is not entirely understood by scientists, the basics are like this:

Neurotransmitters are chemicals in the brain that transmit impulses between nerves. Adrenaline is one very popular example. Norepinephrine and serotonin are two other transmitters. In scientific studies, people suffering depression are low in these two chemicals. It is a large argument whether the chemicals cause the depression, or the depression alters the chemicals, although most people favor the first suggestion. The chemicals are very sensitive and can be altered very easily and quickly, especially in the negative direction. When children are wild, they give them depressants, and when adults or adolescents are depressed, they give them stimulants. Some people argue against modern medicine, but their number is limited.

Daylight directly affects the levels of these two chemicals in the brain, as does sleeping. The more daylight, the less depressed. This is again because of the build up of these chemicals during the daylight and waking hours. For this reason, many people feel worse and more depressed in the winter time. But take heed, because if you do lie in bed or sulk as you feel like doing, you will become worse and worse. When depression looms overhead, exercise, diet, and assurance are the best helps. According to A.B. Curtiss, “Depression is a bully. Face it down. Don’t do what your depression wants.” Singing, working, praying, and laughing are all things that we do not feel like doing when we are depressed, but if we do these things, we fight the bitter cycle, and with God’s help, we can overcome.

Selfishness, self-pity, and loneliness are the key causes of depression. If one focuses on helping others, caring for others, and if one has true friend and is able to avoid loneliness, then he or she successfully takes the first step to avoid depression. (Of course, true loneliness can only be overcome by coming to know that Jesus Christ loves you, and by choosing to be his friend).

Now about medicine, medicines do have a significant effect as required by the FDA. Even so, even Prozac had to run several trials to finally meet the FDA’s standard. The placebo is almost as effective as the medicine (about 10% lower). According to a 1999 study at Duke University, three- 30 minute workouts per week brought relief equal to the drugs. After the medicine was removed, six months later 40% of the subjects on the medicine were again stricken with depression, and 8% of those who exercised suffered the same fate. Many people say that the chemical balance in the brain cannot be changed by thinking or behavior, but according to a study at the UCLA School of Medicine, “Cognitive behavioral therapy alone causes chemical changes in the brain.” A great part of the misconceptions of depression comes from the advertisement of Prozac and the other major companies. Prozac made $1.7 billion in 1999, and $15 million were spent on advertisement. Prozac also sponsors the Public Broadcasting System’s “Religion and Ethics Newsweekly.” The truth is that the pharmaceutical companies do not care about the addictiveness of their product, and they do not care very much about the side effects. They care about the money.

So, we must be careful to examine the data and the scientific discoveries. People do seem to be able to alter their chemicals somewhat, and they should do as much as they can (with God’s help), and they should avoid addictive medicines that also have adverse side- effects. I am writing this from a concerned point of view, and I want the best for my fellow people. This is why I conducted an investigation, and this is why I have posted what I have learned. I hope that this information is helpful. If you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at benjaminliscano@yahoo.com.



David

Topic: Re: Diagnosis
posted by David on 2002-09-17 03:55:48








Just my two pennies worth. Why is it only with Mental Illness that positve thinking is said to work? Would positive thinking cure a cold, Aids or cancer? No, then why should it cure depression then?

Obviously, such people have never experienced a real dose of mental illness or they wouldn't come up with such ill informed comments.

Secondly, there is nothing wrong with being on Prozac or any other antidepressant. They are not a pick me up or taken just for the fun of it. I have had serious bouts of depression and owe my life to these life saving drugs. I'm not ashamed to have taken them at all. If your feeling depressed go and talk to your doctor. It was the best thing I ever did. There is no need to suffer in silence. Depression is a treatable illness.

(By the way, I am a SAD sufferer - have been for 7 years now - and a good mix of light box, prozaac and exercise does the trick for me!)

David


Donna

Topic: Re: Diagnosis
posted by Donna on 2002-09-28 00:45:18







I agree with David,Prozac is nothing to be ashamed of.I was on it for 1 year and I felt it didn't help me but,I know people it has helped.You have to find what works better for yourself.
My neighbour has started on it for depression ,she doesn't have sad like I do but,still needs help.
Anyway,I hope all of you sufferers get through to the spring as easy as possible(if only sad was so simple!)

Take care,
Donna.

p.s by the way,as soon as I came back from my hols in the sun ,I got my light-box out of the loft ready for the dark mornings and nights in advance,just a little tip if you like!!!


Ramona

Topic: Re: Diagnosis
posted by Ramona on 2002-11-19 12:11:37







Why is it only with Mental Illness that positve thinking is said to work? Would positive thinking cure a cold, Aids or cancer? No, then why should it cure depression then?

David, you are brilliant. What a great, concise way to put it.



jo

Topic: Re: Diagnosis
posted by jo on 2002-11-20 19:16:08








I personally went through a long haul to get diagnosed. It was only when i moved further north when i went to university that a clear pattern emerged. Moving further north meant my SAD kicked in every year and became very severe. I was feeling suicidal every winter, it destroyed relationships with some friends and partners (although true friends made the effort to understand and be supportive) and my physical health was dreadful. After going to my gp several winters in a row with what I was told was depression I asked for a referral to the Mental Health unit. It took time but I finally got my diagnosis and i felt like a weight had been lifted.
If your gp is not supportive then I have to agree with the suggestion that you try another. There are distinct symptoms associated with SAD that do not turn up in a case of mainstream depression which your gp should be picking up on. If you have read the part on 'Heathers Page' about the difference between clinical depression and SAD you will know which additional symptoms you have, make sure you tell your gp about them.
Some people are surprised when they find out that i have been actually diagnosed, and its only then that i realise they have quietly been thinking the classic 'We ALL get a bit down in the winter, dear'. Suddenly they realise i'm not making it up. You'll always get those that don't take it seriously and talk about you behind your back, although they would probably behave the same if you were suffering from post- natal depression for example. Remember, its their ignorance and narrow mindedness and its best to ignore them. That said i know it's hard. Only the other day i had a colleague quiz me about it and i noticed that he was smirking. Smirking turned into giggling and I nearly lost my temper. Even explaining that i have been diagnosed by a consultant pychiatrist and that this is a serious condition which has led to several (abortive i'm glad to say) suicide attempts did not stop him laughing. I was livid. The only way to handle people that don't take you seriously even after explanation, including GPs, is to minimise exposure to these negative influences and associate with people that do. There are two main barriers to people taking it seriously: firstly it is a relatively recently classified syndrome and some people still think it is not a 'proper' condition, secondly since most people don't feel so bouncy in the winter, and a few are sub-syndromal, most people have no idea how severe full blown SAD is. If you say you get SAD they think you mean you are simply grumpy in the winter and don't want to get up in the morning!

The absolute most important thing is that YOU know that its real and which symptoms you suffer from. That in itself empowers you.

If you ususally take an SSRI (selective seratonin reuptake inhibitor) e.g. prozac and suffer particularly from sluggishness and slow metabolism you may wish to consider switching to venlafaxine which is an SNRI (selective seratonin and noradrenalin reuptake inhibitor) which makes some people a bit twitchy but definitely perks you up a bit.

Hope this helps, remember it IS real and you are not alone - there are plenty of fellow sufferers out here.



jo

Topic: Re: Diagnosis
posted by jo on 2002-11-20 19:16:23








I personally went through a long haul to get diagnosed. It was only when i moved further north when i went to university that a clear pattern emerged. Moving further north meant my SAD kicked in every year and became very severe. I was feeling suicidal every winter, it destroyed relationships with some friends and partners (although true friends made the effort to understand and be supportive) and my physical health was dreadful. After going to my gp several winters in a row with what I was told was depression I asked for a referral to the Mental Health unit. It took time but I finally got my diagnosis and i felt like a weight had been lifted.
If your gp is not supportive then I have to agree with the suggestion that you try another. There are distinct symptoms associated with SAD that do not turn up in a case of mainstream depression which your gp should be picking up on. If you have read the part on 'Heathers Page' about the difference between clinical depression and SAD you will know which additional symptoms you have, make sure you tell your gp about them.
Some people are surprised when they find out that i have been actually diagnosed, and its only then that i realise they have quietly been thinking the classic 'We ALL get a bit down in the winter, dear'. Suddenly they realise i'm not making it up. You'll always get those that don't take it seriously and talk about you behind your back, although they would probably behave the same if you were suffering from post- natal depression for example. Remember, its their ignorance and narrow mindedness and its best to ignore them. That said i know it's hard. Only the other day i had a colleague quiz me about it and i noticed that he was smirking. Smirking turned into giggling and I nearly lost my temper. Even explaining that i have been diagnosed by a consultant pychiatrist and that this is a serious condition which has led to several (abortive i'm glad to say) suicide attempts did not stop him laughing. I was livid. The only way to handle people that don't take you seriously even after explanation, including GPs, is to minimise exposure to these negative influences and associate with people that do. There are two main barriers to people taking it seriously: firstly it is a relatively recently classified syndrome and some people still think it is not a 'proper' condition, secondly since most people don't feel so bouncy in the winter, and a few are sub-syndromal, most people have no idea how severe full blown SAD is. If you say you get SAD they think you mean you are simply grumpy in the winter and don't want to get up in the morning!

The absolute most important thing is that YOU know that its real and which symptoms you suffer from. That in itself empowers you.

If you usually take an SSRI (selective seratonin reuptake inhibitor) e.g. prozac and suffer particularly from sluggishness and slow metabolism you may wish to consider switching to venlafaxine which is an SNRI (selective seratonin and noradrenalin reuptake inhibitor) which makes some people a bit twitchy but definitely perks you up a bit.

Hope this helps, remember it IS real and you are not alone - there are plenty of fellow sufferers out here.










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