Nutrition Info

A lot of people come here and say that they feel they eat a healthy diet. I used to think that, too -- and then the depression hit. The problem is that the "nutrition" I was taught in school, and the ideas still commonly around now (i.e. that "low fat" is good, and that polyunsaturated oils are good, saturated fats are bad) is simply wrong. How on earth could doctors, teachers, and society at large be mistaken about this? For the same reasons that they are wrong about antidepressants being ideal treatments for mental illness. Pure ignorance. Before you write me off as a lunatic, there's loads of info out there to be had, from credible and respectable sources, if you just look for it. "The truth is out there," if you know how to find it.

It took me a long time searching before I did. I had the idea, or instinct, that there should be some kind of way to put my depression right. Something went wrong, and no one was going to tell me that it was going to stay wrong the rest of my life. Medications did not "fix" it. A lower carbohydrate, no-processed-sugar diet did not fix it. I was beginning to despair, when I finally found a naturopathic healer who has extensive medical and nutritional knowledge. She helped begin my re-education in nutrition. Much of what I know, and much of my healing, I owe to her. I've also done research on my own.

I don't claim to be an expert. Far from it. This is a field in which medical doctors should be much more knowledgeable themselves, because that's where the deep healing occurs, right at the root of many problems. Unfortunately, modern Western medicine tends to treat the symptoms rather than the cause, and it is obsessed with prescribing medications. We can't look to doctors as godlike, omnipotent figures who know how to put everything right. We at least owe it to ourselves to research what ails us and look for alternative solutions, especially when the doctors really are at a loss to help us.

I urge everyone who reads this, therefore, to take responsibility for your own health, to educate yourselves. That doesn't mean avoiding doctors, but admitting that doctors are capable of causing more harm than good if we blindly hand our well-being and very lives over to them.

That said, I'd like to share here what I've learned about nutrition in the past 8 months. It's only a beginning, but maybe it can offer some help and some hope to those who read it. This knowledge literally saved my life, because I was depressed and suicidal when I came across it.

Happy reading,
Linda.

I've thought repeatedly of starting a nutrition thread in here these past two days, but have been waiting for you to do it because I have been too lazy. I was going to mention it to you to see if that might provoke you to do it, ha!

Thanks for doing it anyway,

J

Some things I've learned, and can add to this.

Fruit -- best avoided if you have blood sugar issues. Maybe some berries once in a while, which are lower in sugar, though it's worth bearing in mind that most fruit today has been cultivated to be sweeter than it would have been in the wild. You will get all the vitamins and minerals you need from a good vegetable intake, and some high-quality nutritional supplements like a multivitamin and colloidal minerals.

Grains -- up to individuals to experiment; though as the above article explains, our bodies don't really need them at all, and they can cause our bodies problems. I don't have any: no wheat products, no corn, rice, potatoes, legumes, none of it. I don't miss it. If I eat any now, it sits in my stomach like a rock.

This diet is fairly high in HEALTHY fats, again as the above article explains. You need to know what these are. Meat with fat attached to it is great, if you know that the animal was grass-fed, or fed on its natural diet (I still wait for the day when I can sample some chicken that was raised on its natural foraging food of insects). If the animal was grain-fed, you don't want to eat its fat because it's full of omega-6. Try explaining that to my parents, who love their yummy "good corn-fed" meat, LOL.

You won't gain weight on this diet if you keep grains to a minimum. You will instead shed the pounds at a slow and healthy rate. Eat what your body was originally programmed to eat and you will reap the rewards.

I'll post more info here as and when I have time, including sharing the nutritional and Paleo links I have.

With love,
Linda.

I think we need to be careful about the vegetarian/vegan issue here, maybe best not to get into arguments. However, I think there's a lot of evidence that the human body needs animal products. That's what it evolved to have. Certainly, I would have to say a purely vegan diet is unhealthy. If you are a vegetarian, then the leader of my Withdrawal and Recovery list says you will not be able to heal much from the ravages of psychotropic drugs; you body needs animal proteins.

Why don't you join, and ask her about this?

If you react badly to cheese, then it certainly isn't necessary to eat cheese in order to be healthy. Bread isn't necessary either. If you eliminate grains from your diet, then you will probably find you do not crave carbs, be they breads or sugars. Doing Paleo is the only way I've been able to free myself of sugar cravings that plagued me my entire life.

Must dash, happy to chat later if you like :)
Linda.

What you say about fish sounds sensible to me. If you're willing to have fish oil then most all of your omega-3 can come from that. There are recommended brands that are fairly pure from toxins.

It's also sensible, as you say, to read the files you've been sent closely. I didn't and I'm paying the price. When I joined that group I was mad keen to stop taking my medication, so I did a flimsy week-long taper and that was that. I should have read about all the problems that can occur if you do that but I brushed it off. I'm told that most people who join don't read the files, so you're giving yourself a really good start I think.

Right, I'll see about getting some links posted here.

Linda :)

Hi Linda

Thanks for this information. I don't post very often, but I am interested in trying this form of eating to see if it does work, although I'm concerned it will be horrendously difficult to get used to!
I've just about given up on my doctor today as all they are interested in is prescribing AD's which I do not want, so I'm going to have to try and help myself.
It sounds similar to nutritional advice given for SAD by natropath & nutritionist Michael Van Straten on his website.
I think I will do some research and give it a go once christmas is out of the way. I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks for giving me some hope!
Sam

Here is an extract from a book by one of orthomolecular nutrition's most respected and longest-standing practitioners, Abrham Hoffer. He is mainly known for his success in treating schizophrenia with megavitamin therapy (specifically B3 and C).

It is interesting to compare Hoffer's take on mental illness with Breggin's (see the Antidepressant Info topic). Hoffer uses the language of the psychiatrist and talks of neuroses and diseases. In treating a patient he would first and foremost look at the patient's diet. He is not a supporter of "talk therapy." Breggin, however, believes talk therapy to be of ciritcal value, especially when the alternative is psychiatric drugs. However he seems unaware of the role nutrition plays in mental illness.

If only the twain shall meet, LOL. Hoffer still has much knowledge to offer, and it is tragic that the mainstream does not pay more attention to his research. This extract explains some of his ideas about nutrition, particularly how the modern Western diet can cause mental and physical illness.

from Putting it All Toegther: The New Orthomolecular Nutrition, by Abram Hoffer M.D. and Morton Walker D.P.M.

Some years ago a woman was admitted to City Hospital, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, with a diagnosis of self-induced skin gouges, a supposed psychiatric problem. Her immediate history included a broken love affair – which was generally considered the reason why this woman, a nurse, was tearing at her own skin. Invariably I include a nutritional history as part of any patient’s entry under my care, and I learned that she had suffered severe malnutrition long ago as a prisoner of a concentration camp in Europe. Now she had a resultant vitamin dependency . Additionally, she was eating a highly processed carbohydrate diet routinely. This was a combination debilitating to her mental health.

This nurse was gouging out portions of herself because of a severe state of anxiety-depression. I treated her psychiatric problem with orthomolecular nutrition (which consisted primarily of a nonrefined carbohydrate diet and vitamins) and she became well enough to be discharged from the hospital within two weeks. Her skin damage had ceased altogether. Any other orthodox medical treatment would have placed her under long-term, detailed psychotherapy – perhaps once a week for the next five years. It could not possibly have helped. Her malnutrition of thirty years before had finally caught up with her and caused mental illness – which was relieved through nutrition according to the principles of orthomolecular therapy.

The Consequences of Consuming a Junk Diet

Overconsumption of refined food causes the saccharine disease. Organ changes from the saccharine disease result in diabetes, peptic ulcer, constipation (and its effects such as varicose veins, hemorrhoids and cancer of the bowel) and other debilitations. Consequently, an orthomolecular therapist will direct primary attention toward changing the patient’s diet.

Associated with the saccharine disease, and especially with mental and emotional problems resulting from it, is the condition known as relative hypoglycemia. In reality, relative hypoglycemia is not a clinical entity in itself, being a term used to denote a laboratory test result in which a person’s blood sugar level decreases more than 20mg per 100ml after being given a “challenge dose” of 100g of glucose, constituting a six-hour sugar tolerance test. One can only guess at the proportion of our population who have relative hypoglycemia, but assuredly it is large – perhaps close to a majority.

Of 500 alcoholics that my colleagues and I have tested, almost all suffered a decrease of 20mg or more in blood sugar. About 10% of any adult population consumes excessive quntities of alcohol, and it is likely this group suffers from the saccharine disease. And as two-thirds of all neurotics and people with depression have the condition, we may assume that at least 35 to 50% of our entire population is victimised by its mental and physical manifestations. It is a result of the average North American ingesting a junk diet.

A Junk Diet Is:

A junk diet supplies poor quality eating – foods which contain sugar, white flour or polished rice, alcohol and items processed by manufacturers from whole foods. People are allergic to certain foods, and consumption of them can result in disease.

In effect, a junk diet is a disease, especially resulting in the so-called degenerative diseases of civilisation such as heart problems, and forms of cancer, arthritis and diabetes. Junk foods are artifacts derived from living organisms, either plant or animal. The major plant material which comprises living natural food is the seed of wheat, corn and rice. Seeds are the plant’s future progeny. When a wheat kernel is formed, it contains the amount of protein, carbohydrate, fat, vitamins and minerals necessary to launch a new plant. These components must also be present in adequate amounts in the human diet to support a person’s nutrition. In processed foods such components are not present. On the other hand, seeds and nuts, which are capable of growing new plants, are nutritious packets of food for us.

The flesh and organs of animals are even closer in composition to our bodies. When they are consumed they provide most of our requirements, provided we do not eat damaged goods of devitalised quality altered during the journey from the animal to our plates.

The components of food in nature’s packets are combined in a very intricate relationship. Protein, fat and carbohydrate interlaced with vitamins and minerals must be present. When natural food is consumed, all its components are provided at the same time. The elemental nutrients such as the amino acids, simple sugars and other items, will be delivered via the circulated blood to all the cells together. All the essential amino acids must be present about the same time. It does not help the cell to be supplied half the essential amino acids and then to receive the other half twelve hours later. If all the components are not present simultaneously, the cell functions poorly.

People are surprised when they discover that our present diets are generally inferior to the diets of our ancestors. They point to the tremendous advances in the science of nutrition and to our present food technology. It is hard for them to believe that modern foods, which taste so palatable, are so attractively packaged, and are so easy to warm up in a twentieth-century kitchen, can be as harmful as they are. Not uncommonly, people who are burying themselves with their teeth look upon those who are disturbed by our modern diets as food faddists or freaks.

Patients who have recovered from disease by eliminating sugar from their diet sometimes force a test of their eating programmes upon themselves. Very often they will expose themselves to several relapses by reverting to the diet that originally made them ill. They then return to orthomolecular physicians for care, while knowing full well what has gone wrong. Although they could overcome recurrence of their symptoms by halting their intake of processed and high-sugar foods, they return for treatment because they need the doctor’s reasurance and confirmation that their eating is valid, to offset the negative opinions of ignorant consumers of highly refined foods.

The Results of Eating Junk Food

Artifact or “junk” foods include such items as white bread, commercial french-fried potatoes, non-dairy creams made of chemicals and all the foods to which sugar has been added. Pies, pastry, cakes, chocolate, candy, most desserts, jello and many canned goods such as soups, contain added sugar.

Most children like sweets, and often sugared foods form a staple of their diet. When fed a diet free of processed junk, these children may feel deprived. However, not uncommonly after six months the sugar addiction will be lost, and they can adapt to the various healthier foods substituted. If sugar addiction actually manifests itself as allergy, junk food will produce disease symptoms which become uncomfortable. Any tissue or organ in the body may react.

Allergy to sugar and other components of processed food may manifest itself in the skin in the form of hives, rashes, itch, swelling, redness, decreaed ability to move because of skin rubbing and tautness, and pain. The urinary bladded may shrink and cause bed wetting. The central nervous system can react, causing a variety of unpleasant symptoms such as tension, anxiety, depression, hallucinations, thought disorder and changes in behaviour. The neuroses or psychoneuroses are psychiatric diseases that mainly alter mood. Psychosomatic conditions also fall into this category.

Malnutrition resulting from excessive comsumption of processed food in the form of refined carbohydrates is also the major cause of a braod group of neuroses and physical illnesses. Until recently these were looked upon as unrelated diseases with no known etiology, but now the root cause, nutritive deficiency, has become apparent. It may help many people who suffer from these diseases to embrace principles of proper eating. They will become aware immediately, from the reduction of their symptoms, of the reasons why they have been ill.

The mass indictment of refined carbohydrates as the cause of many of the ills of Westernised countries today was advanced by Surgeon-Captain T.L. Cleave, formerly director of medical research of the Institute of Naval Medicine, Great Britain. In 1956, he designated “the saccharine disease” as the master disease, incorporating diabetes, coronary disease, obesity, peptic ulcer, constipation, hemorrhoids, varicose veins; Escherichia coli infections such as appendicitis, cholecystitis, pyelitis and diverticulitis; renal calculus, many skin conditions and dental caries.

The master disorder which is the saccharine disease produces a variety of physical and mental manifestations that derive from the excessive consumption of refined or processed carbohydrates. Primarily, these are sugar and white flour. Highly processed products of this type cause specific physical anf psychiatric changes sometimes labeled psychosomatic and sometimes considered idiopathic. To distinguish them, however, and separate them from “thinking” diseases that arise from an influence of the mind or “unknown” diseases that come from no apparent extrinsic cause, the doctor merely needs to perform a six-hour glucose tolerance test on his patient.

Psychological Manifestations of the Saccharine Disease

I have identified relative hypoglycemia (functional insulinism) as a psychological component of the saccharine disease. The basic problems arise from the excessive consumption of refined carbohydrates, chiefly sugar and white flour. In 1924, about one year after insulin came into general use for the treatment of diabetes, Seale Harris, M.D., Professor of Medicine at the University of Alabama, noted that many non-diabetics experienced some symptoms of insulin overdosage, insulin shock. He suggested that in some people “hyperinsulinism” occurred: that is, the pancreas overreacted with secretion of too much insulin. Dr. Harris developed the six-hour glucose tolerance test to determine its presence.

However, today relative hypoglycemia is uniformly rejected by the majority of physicians as a valid entity or even as the end result of a diagnostic laboratory test. It remains one of the diseases not taught in medical schools. Not uncommonly, a 50-to-75 year gap will occur between medical discovery and application of its knowledge. For example, it took 50 years before the Royal Navy adopted Sir James Lind’s discovery that citrus fruits would cure and prevent scurvy. Nevertheless, more than 90 years have passed since Dr. Harris developed his glucose tolerance test and there still remains a reluctance to accept it on the part of medical traditionalists. Reading about relative hypoglycemia here, you now know that low blood sugar is responsible for a great deal of mental illness. When the sugar content of blood goes too low all the tissues of the body have alternative sources of energy except the brain. Brain tissue depends primarily upon glucose for its energy.

A consistent association prevails between neuroses and relative hypoglycemia. Symptoms may include depression, insomnia, anxiety, irritability, crying spells, phobias, lack of concentration and confusion. Accompanying these neurotic symptoms may be physical ones: fatigue, sweating, rapid heartbeat, diminished appetite and chronic indigestion. Other main neurotic symptoms may be headache, dizziness, tremor, muscle pain and backache. Hypoglycemic people do have the typical neurotic symptoms. Possibly one-third of people visiting their physicians for various symptoms suffer from this condition. It is one of the most common causes of neuropsychiatric illness, and it occurs because of the poor dietary habits of Western civilisation.

************

Criteria of Mental Health

Disappointment and annoyance are emotions I feel at the number of psychiatrists who remain content to keep their schizophrenic patients heavily and permanently tranquilised. Those patients are perfect consumers of services, support and every other community resource, but never again are they able to be productive citizens of society. They are being given cruel, ignorant and inhumane treatment. Keeping them tranquilised holds them in a state of abnormality not reconcilable with the precepts of morality – the science of the good and the nature of the right.

By my criteria, a patient is well or recovered from mental disease as soon as he is free of all signs and symptoms. He returns, or is able to return, to his former occupation or, if he had never worked before, now acquires a useful occupation. He gets on well with his family and with the community.

The basic treatment for mental disease in orthomolecular medicine is the overcoming of the effects of poor nutrition with corrective nutritional therapy. Yet a measure of ignorance of many medical critics of this care is that they hardly ever take nutritional histories of their patients. The most enthusiastic exponents of treatment of mental disease with nutrition are physicians who have themselves suffered with psychological manifestations of the saccharine disease. There is nothing as convincing as a personal cure, especially when every other treatment has been ineffective.

An example of what I mean is the result of my treatment of four general physicians who became severely psychotic before entering the study of medicine or who became ill after being in practice. They are now normal and practising successfully. The other two medical students recovered from mental ills under my care and are now completing their medical training. Medical study, calling for stringent concentration as it does, points up these recoveries as remarkable. I am unaware of other physicians able to recover from psychosis and practise medicine after being treated with standard tranquiliser therapy.

The International Network of Cholesterol Sceptics
http://www.thincs.org/index.htm

Questioning conventional wisdom about cholestrol and statins -- article from the Daily Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.html?in_article_id=430682&in_page_id=1774&in_page_id=1774&expand=true#StartComments

Both of these links assert that there is no connection bewteen high cholesterol and heart disease, or between saturated fat and high cholesterol, or saturated fat and heart disease. Sounds incredible? Have a look.

Hi Linda,

I read your Jan 26th post from Abrham Hoffer's writing when you first posted it...


I just realized that that was only about 10 days ago, which is really strange, because that seems like 2 months ago to me... I have been so busy lately with school and miscellaneous life things, that time is flying.

Anyway, I thought Hoffer's ideas there were very interesting and the mention of the saccharide disease really "rang true" for me. I had slightly below normal results on the second (2 hour) blood draw on my 2 hour glucose tolerance test, and his suggestions, causes, and consequences of these kind of results correlated perfectly with my own personal experience throughout my life.

I was wondering where you got that book excerpt? It seems that you have posted a number of book excerpts here, which is confusing to me, because I very rarely ever find a book excerpt, or a whole book for that matter, posted online in html (regular text) format, to facilitate copy/pasting. Where do you find these book excerpts? Or did you type that all out? It also seems I may have asked you this question before, but I do not recall.

My source is Catherine Creel. Well, she's often the start. Then I branch out on tangents of my own. Often I'll look up a link she gives me, find names, info there, links to other sites, and off I go.

I type these excepts out myself. I don't mind, if my cortisol can cope with it. It gives me something worthwhile to do. It's hard sitting around the house at this time of year, hoping/waiting for a job. I've done my best to be a stay-at-home mum but it's had a devastating effect on my mental health.

At any rate, most of the books I've recommended can be found at Amazon.co.uk or Amazon.com. What I've found is the more information I absorb, the more balanced I feel about it all. The authors of these books have their own agendas and they are skewed toward this. Peter Breggin is outstanding in his stance against psychotropic drugs, several other doctors are, but they do not marry any nutritional awareness with this, and end up offering little comofort to people whose depressions are partly or mostly caused by nutritional problems. Abram Hoffer is outstanding in his awareness of how vitamins can treat illnesses, but he is arrogant/ignorant enough to say in his own book that he thinks talk therapy should be completely unnecessary. Part of his original treatment for the girl whose schizophrenia turned out to be caused by multiple food allergies, was to offer her ECT, which he coldly decided did not help her. (My god, how would anybody truly be helped by having their bodies and brains fried?) And Sally Fallon is a big advocate of whole grains. I originally changed my own diet by cutting out sugar and white flour, which is about as far as she goes, but it didn't help much. I needed the full Paleo diet to be able to start healing.

However, taken all together, there's a lot of knowledge there. I'd also recommend Linus Pauling's How to Live Longer and Feel Better. It's a little out of date, and again I don't think his dietary advice is radical enough to help people who are already ill, but for info about vitamin C and its hundreds of benefits, it is a book second to none. There's also info about other vitamins. He was a remarkable man.

I know there's software you can get that will scan a page from a book and put the text in a word processor. Our scanners are covered in dust upstairs though, and my husband (who is the computer expert) is at work every day. So I type. I enjoy sharing this info. If only it had been available to me before the drugs.

Linda :)

Sugar rush: the sweetening of the British palate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/food/Story/0,,2013348,00.html

Rise in Mental Illness Linked to Unhealthy Diets, Say Studies

· Patients benefit by cutting intake of junk food
· NHS warned of rise in £100bn bill

Felicity Lawrence
Monday January 16, 2006
The Guardian

Changes in diet over the past 50 years appear to be an important factor behind a significant rise in mental ill health in the UK, say two reports published today.
The Mental Health Foundation says scientific studies have clearly linked attention deficit disorder, depression, Alzheimer's disease and schizophrenia to junk food and the absence of essential fats, vitamins and minerals in industrialised diets.

A further report, Changing Diets, Changing Minds, is also published today by Sustain, the organisation that campaigns for better food. It warns that the NHS bill for mental illness, at almost £100bn a year, will continue to rise unless the government focuses on diet and the brain in its food, farming, education and environment policies.

"Food can have an immediate and lasting effect on mental health and behaviour because of the way it affects the structure and function of the brain," Sustain's report says. Its chairman, Tim Lang, said: "Mental health has been completely neglected by those working on food policy. If we don't address it and change the way we farm and fish, we may lose the means to prevent much diet-related ill health."

Both reports, which have been produced collaboratively, outline the growing scientific evidence linking poor diet to problems of behaviour and mood. Rates of depression have been shown to be higher in countries with low intakes of fish, for example. Lack of folic acid, omega-3 fatty acids, selenium and the amino acid tryptophan are thought to play an important role in the illness. Deficiencies of essential fats and antioxidant vitamins are also thought to be a contributory factor in schizophrenia.

A pioneering nutrition and mental health programme, thought to be the only one of its kind in Britain, was carried out at Rotherham, South Yorkshire. According to Caroline Stokes, its research nutritionist, the mental health patients she saw generally had the poorest diets she had ever come across. "They are eating lots of convenience foods, snacks, takeaways, chocolate bars, crisps. It's very common for clients to be drinking a litre or two of cola a day. They get lots of sugar but a lot of them are eating only one portion of fruit or vegetable a day, if that."

The therapy includes omega-3 fatty acids and multivitamins, with advice on cutting out junk food and replacing it with oily fish, leafy vegetables for folic acid, Brazil nuts for selenium, and food providing tryptophan.

Some patients who resist treatment with drugs accept nutritional therapy and most have reported an improvement in mood and energy. Ms Stokes said: "Within the first month there's been a significant reduction in depression. We've had letters from psychiatrists saying they can see a huge difference."

One sufferer who benefited from a dietary change was James McLean, who was at university when first diagnosed with bipolar disorder (manic depression). After he had been sectioned repeatedly, his father read about the role of nutrition in mental health. The pair went privately to the Brain Bio Centre, in London, where Mr McLean's nutrient levels were checked; he was allergic to gluten and yeast and was given supplements, including vitamin B and essential fatty acids.

"I'd been eating lots of intense carbohydrate foods ... because they were cheap, and very little fruit or vegetables," Mr McLean said. Now, he excludes wheat from his diet too. He added: "I have more energy and confidence, I sleep better, and I came off the anti-psychotic drugs, although I still take mood stabilising ones."

Andrew McCulloch, chief executive of the Mental Health Foundation, acknowledged that mental illness results from a complex interplay of biological, social, psychological and environmental factors, but thought diet should be an everyday component of mental health care. "It costs £1,000 a week to keep someone in a psychiatric hospital. How much does good food cost? We need mentally healthy school meals, and mentally healthy hospital foods," he said.

Best choices and worst:

Good for the brain:

Vegetables, especially leafy
Seeds and nuts
Fruit
Whole grains
Wheatgerm
Organic eggs
Organic farmed or wild fish, especially fatty fish

Bad for the brain:

Deep fried junk foods
Refined processed foods
Pesticides
Alcohol
Sugar
Tea and coffee
Some additives

Here is a good article that gives info about how the veg we eat today has fewer vitamins than the same veg a generation ago, and why it is beneficial to take vitamin supplements:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2001/mar2001_report_vegetables.html

More info on the mineral depletion of soil. Includes some info about veg farmed in the UK. An in-depth explanation of what happened, how it affects people, and what can be done about the problem.

http://www.trccorp.com/faq_root_disease

Meat and Dairy: Where Have the Minerals Gone?
http://www.foodcomm.org.uk/PDF%20files/meat_dairy2.pdf

Conventional medicine vs. naturopathy: How to fix a leaky roof

NewsTarget.com, April 10, 2007

People often ask me about the difference in philosophy between conventional medicine and naturopathic medicine. While the differences are numerous, some of the more fundamental ones can easily be explained. Imagine your body is a house, and the health of your body is the maintenance of that house. If you don't do regular maintenance on this house, the roof of your house begins to leak and you might notice water dripping into your home every time it rains. The water is a symptom of an underlying problem -- a roof with poor maintenance.

The difference between conventional medicine and naturopathic medicine can be described in the way that health practitioners would perceive this problem and attempt to resolve it. Conventional medicine would look at the water dripping out of the roof and find a way to measure it. So they would have a number, which might be 60 drips per hour, and they might say anything above that (such as 70 drips per hour or 100 drips per hour) is a disease, and they would name that disease something like, "Roofoporosis Disease."

They would identify the symptom itself -- the water -- as being the disease, and they would try to figure out which chemical would take care of it. In this case they might prescribe water absorbing crystals that you would spread around the house to absorb this excess water, completely ignoring the integrity of the roof, as well as the need to actually repair the roof and not allow water to drip through it. If you said to them, "well, maybe we should think about repairing the roof," they would say, "The problem is clearly the water -- you can see the water, here's a measurement of the water." They might even say if you don't aggressively treat this excessive water, you're going to end up flooding your entire house.

In contrast to that, a naturopathic approach involves a little more investigative work. A naturopath would use the dripping water as a clue, but then ask: what is the underlying fundamental cause of this water dripping into the home? The naturopathic physician would trace the water back to the stain in the ceiling, and this stain would indicate that water has been chronically dripping in from a leaky roof. Then, he would trace it through the attic to the roof and find a hole in the roof. After a bit of detective work, he (or she) would decide to patch the hole, repair the roof and stop the leaking water at its source.


Treat the problem, not the symptom
Naturopaths aren't treating the water -- the symptom -- and this confuses conventional medicine to a great degree. They don't understand how someone can treat cancer without treating the tumor itself. Because conventional docs think the symptom is the disease or the disorder. But naturopathic medicine sees the cancer tumor as only a symptom of a much deeper problem. Just like the water dripping into the home is only a symptom of a broken roof in need of repair, a cancer tumor is only a symptom of a serious underlying metabolic problem.

The naturopathic physician would fix the cause of the problem, but they wouldn't stop there. They would also realize that if the roof has one hole in it now, it seems likely that there could be other holes that are beginning to form, too. They would look at it from a holistic perspective and work to not only solve today's problems, but also prevent the development of other chronic degenerative problems that share the same cause.

Conventional medicine, having ignored the leaky roof in the first place, would play a game of prescribing a never-ending chain of treatments to mask all the various water disorders, each of which would be given a unique disease name. If water dripped onto your wooden furniture, it would be called something like Furniture Disease, whereas if the same water dripped on your carpet, they might call it Soggy Carpet Disease. No matter what the water dripped on, conventional medicine would have a different name and a different treatment for it. Even though all these problems have the same common cause (the leaky roof), medicine would find a way to turn it into a dozen different diseases and treatment plans, all while completely ignoring the root cause.

Naturopathic physicians and Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioners, on the other hand, will listen to their patient's symptoms but not necessarily treat those symptoms directly. Sometimes they even appear to ignore the symptoms completely, even though they are in actuality looking beyond them and treating the fundamental causes of the disease. There are really only a few basic causes of all disease. Conventional medicine has over ten thousand names for various diseases, but these are merely symptomatic descriptions. Every single one of them is based on one of the following three causes:

Number one: the body (or the mind) doesn't have something it needs, such as nutrition, oxygen, air, sunlight, love, sleep, etc.

Number two: the body (or mind) has too much of something it can't use or is toxic.

Number three: the body (or mind) doesn't have the proper flow, either energetically or physically. This means it cannot remove metabolic waste products, nourish cells with fresh blood, or neurologically respond to a stimulus.

No matter what symptoms you present at the doctor's office, the naturopathic physician will investigate the root causes of disease: your exposure to toxic chemicals, your levels of chronic stress and the health of your relationships, your level of physical exercise, and your exposure to sunlight, fresh air and fresh water, among other factors. These are simple causative factors, but when they are out of balance, deficient, or present in excess, they combine to create all the different biochemical problems that conventional medicine labels as disease. In other words, these three causes can combine in ten thousand different ways, creating ten thousand different symptoms, and conventional medicine has invented a name for each one.

But treating disease is wasted effort if it remains focused on the symptoms. Preventing disease is sort of like doing basic maintenance on your home; it's something you have to do routinely, something you do preemptively to prevent disease from occurring. And you have to cover all the basics: nutrition, exercise, avoidance of toxic chemicals, avoidance of chronic stress, good flow and circulation, and a healthy mind and emotional state. These things go together to create a healthy body and mind.

This fundamental idea -- which is centuries old and was understood in China thousands of years before the rise of modern pharmacology -- remains utterly neglected by modern medical science. Today's medical practitioners cannot grasp this simple concept, and they still insist that there are more than 10,000 different diseases, each requiring specific chemical or surgical treatments.

It's like running around a leaky house with a pail trying to catch all of the drops of water while billing Medicare for the cost of the pails. It would be better to simply fix the roof. But knowing that the roof is leaking requires some detective work, and conventional medicine has abandoned anything resembling real detective work. Today, it's all about identifying and treating the symptoms, then waiting for the patient to return with more symptoms caused by the treatments used on the first round of symptoms.

Someday, this whole system of modern medicine will be looked upon as quite foolish. Because it doesn't take a genius to figure out that fixing the leaky roof is the best way to prevent water from dripping into your home.

This article is essentially about carcinogens (cancer-causing compunds) in foods, but I think it's just as relevant to sufferers of depression. If you include foods like these in your diet then they can end up wreaking havoc over time, and any number of symptoms can result, including depression and mental illness. So the next time you get the SAD-fuelled carb cravings, the info in this article is worth bearing in mind. True, one donut may not kill you -- but "one donut" here and there, along with other unhealthy foods, over 20 or 30 years or more, is a sure recipe for disaster.

Top cancer-causing foods:

http://www.newstarget.com/021808.html

I've been there too, I totally understand.

The past 3 months were rough for me as well. But I think it can be a signal that we still need to look for answers. I am trying like mad to secure some kind of teaching job for the autumn because no matter what else I do, the depression isn't going to lift until I get out of the house and get back to work. It helped when I worked 6 weeks last autumn but I had to quit because of overstimulation problems due to what my antidepressant had done to me when I discontinued it. That was a year ago now. Fingers crossed that things will be better with time having passed.

It sounds like you've got a good plan and are doing great. Diet alone often isn't enough though, especially for people who are having problems like depression. You could try looking into some supplements. There's some info in this topic, though I probably ought to look at that and revise it as I'm always learning more. And there's a wealth of info on the internet. If you have the good fortune of being able to access a naturopath in your area, that's probably the best thing of all to do. I've also been reading this book; it's from the US but was well worth getting, I've learned a lot from it:

Depression Cured At Last by Sherry Rogers M.D.
https://prestigepublishing.northlandcom.com/cgi-bin/html_web_store/html_web_store.cgi?page=depress.htm&cart_id=3998726.19334

Hope this helps. I bet you'll be feeling a lot better soon. It's been an incredibly sunny spring. Sometimes it just needs a little bit more intensity to help those of us who are really sunk LOL.

Take care,
Linda.

Other possible causes of depression:

Damage to the body from prescription medications. For example, some people who have taken psychotropic drugs end up being more prone to depression, even if it was not the original problem. Drugs can change a person's system in many ways, and healing can be incomplete if the body is not getting enough of the right nutrients.

Problems with gut flora and candida overgrowth. (Also see Leaky Gut Syndrome.) Candida is a fungus that is normally benign in the intestine; but when a person's body is in a weakened state for whatever reason -- for example, through an antibiotic killing off other healthy gut flora -- it can proliferate and start filling the system with its toxic by-products. It can also be fed by too much sugar in the diet.

Exposure to electromagnetic fields, e.g. living in a house near a pylon, or sleeping with your head against a wall where cables run.

Heavy metal toxicity. Some common sources are mercury amalgam dental fillings, contaminated tapwater, and chemicals in the workplace. There are tests that can determine amounts in the body. It is a good idea to get mercury amalgam fillings replaced whether or not they are the source of the problem, as they add to the total load of chemicals your body must detoxify daily. They can also cause problems with galvanism, especially if the composition of the fillings varies from one to the next.

There are many more possible causes of depression. It's important to take into consideration anything that could be throwing your system off balance. A good naturopath with a knowledge of nutritional and environmental medicine should be able to go through a checklist with you, if you find yourself uncertain about how to proceed, or feel you've tried many things but nothing seems to be working.

Hello, it's been a while since I posted but I am having to look at my diet and eat more red meat as I have been diagnosed with anemia. This can feel very much like depression as you feel extremely tired and are prone to catching every bug there is around.

However the weather has made a difference as I do feel much more energetic since the sun has been shining. My light box has made a difference this winter so I've probably had SAD and anemia, at least I now feel that with the sun shining and changing my diet I can start to feel normal again and hopefully feel even better for next winter.

Thank you Linda for highlighting nutrition as women especially (because of loss of blood in menustration) can be prone to low iron levels which causes general fatique. I wouldn't have known my iron levels were so low if I hadn't have fainted and gone to the doctors as a result.

Hope everyone is feeling well with this lovely run of good weather. Long may it continue!

Louise

Hi Linda

My anemia is most likely caused by heavy periods, so I have been given some tablets which has helped with this. My doctor wishes to tackle the cause of the anemia rather than prescribing iron tablets, so I also have to change my diet. I still feel terribly drained at times but hope this will lessen when my iron levels rise. I've been told it will take at least 3 months for my iron to get to where it should be as it is quite low and I am being monitored with regular blood tests. I've been impressed with the doctors, they do seem good at finding out deficiencies in iron.

I agree, I do think my SAD will be much better when my iron level is normal, I've been blaming all my tiredness on SAD but now I wonder!

Hope you are making a good recovery with your nutrition regime.

All the best
Louise

Thanks I'll give your receipe a try, it sounds good but I'll give raw liver a miss I think! I've been drinking guinness as it is supposed to have iron in it, and been cooking things like steak and kidney, lasagne with minced beef etc as well as trying to eat more greens. I was also advised by the doctor to eat black pudding.

Fortunately I'm not vegetarian (that would be very difficult in this situation), and actually like liver, kidney, black pudding, steaks etc but never really ate them that much.

A trip to the butchers beckons!

Hope you are keeping well Linda

Louise

Excuse me but this info is here to help people. How is it in any way dangerous to a 13 year old? Maybe you don't go along with anything I've written here and that is your choice, but it is also other peoples' choices to read it and take what they will from it. I can't see how anything I said to this particular person was inappropriate.

So it's more appropriate for her to possibly end up on an antidepressant is it? Rather than look for the reasons why she is feeling poorly?

You accuse me of being biased, but calling what I am saying "scaremongering" is also biased. I maintain that this young person appears to have enough intelligence to make her mind up for herself, and hopefully with the support of family and friends she will be OK. However, soothing her with sympathetic words while shielding her delicate ears or eyes from information that could actually help her seems irresponsible.

It is clear you don't agree with what I am saying, but I maintain that other people have the right to come here and decide for themselves. I am going to continue to direct people to this topic where it seems appropriate; and if you have found information that directly contradicts what I have written here, by all means contribute.

So it's more appropriate for her to possibly end up on an antidepressant is it? Rather than look for the reasons why she is feeling poorly?

I didn't see anywhere in Marshmallow's text that she is going to be put on antidepressants. It's just what you imagine will happen. It seems she is engaged in talking therapies at the moment.

Like Suzie, I have long wondered why you push nutrition so hard, when it is obvious that as a therapy it isn't working for you. Why would we take it seriously when it isn't working for the person recommending it.

I follow a pretty healthy diet, because I feel well on it, but I don't obsess.

IM sorry if medication has not worked for you, but for myself and many others it has been a Godsend. I too eat a healthy diet and find it helps me in a supportive role used with my tablets. My advice for what its worth, if you think that you are suffering from deppresion, go and see your doctor, he/she is after all the expert. I cannot praise my doctor enough. He has always given me several choices, some of them dont include medication, but the choice is always there if needed.



paul :)

Well said suzie, its very important to have some balance in these postings, and you put it much better than I can. :)


paul

I generally ignore the topics that inevitably get started here each winter where people talk with each other about their favourite carb cravings. I'll make a point of not reading them in future because the people who talk in them aren't going to want anyone telling them that these things are bad for them.

I am not out to preach at people but if they come to this forum saying they feel miserable then I do sympathise and I feel a need to try to help. Maybe some people just want sympathy. I imagine others would actually like to lift their depression if they can.

The drugs in the UK come from the same companies they come from in the US. The two countries are not miles apart. We have different healthcare systems, but the philosophy of diagnose/label and prescribe is exactly the same. It treats symptoms, not the underlying problems.

No comments here have addressed what I said about the people who were cured of their conditions by taking a vitamin and cleaning up the work environment. I am trying to show here that there are alternatives to meds and that ignoring the roots of a problem can perpatuate it. I don't see how anyone can logically say that this is nonsense.

You may decide that you are happy with your doctor and your medications. I'm absolutely clear on that and I know I'm not going to change your minds. And no one arrives at the answers that are right for them without going down the path of their own choosing. What I am tired of is the same handful of people telling me that what I am saying is nuts. If this approach is not for you then that's fine. I am keeping most of what I write in this topic and in Antidepressant Info so that people can choose to read it if they want, or ignore it if they want.

Again let's please live and let live. I would not set out to criticise either of you for how you are dealing with your personal issues, but you seem to think that is what is happening when you choose to talk to me within these topics. Of course you will find comments here that are different from choices you yourselves would make. If we can stick to encountering each other in more neutral topics then I think we'd probably all be happier.

OK we can debate, though I think it would be hard not to let it get acrimonious. I think it might be better if we say we aren't going to agree.

You've reminded me of something I read when I came across a little entertainment recently in the form of a biography of L. Ron Hubbard. He said that the truth is what you believe it to be. If you say that we can't take as factual anything we've read and that we really don't know what is true, where does that leave us? OK, so nothing I've said in this topic could be true, and I could be completely a different person from who I say I am. I think we have to take information in and decide what is rational.

I would not base what I'm saying here on one thing I'd read in a book, or one book written by one person, just as I would not visit a web page and decide that everything on it was factual and reliable. What most people do when researching on the web is they read many different sources of information, and if the same info comes up again and again, it's likely to have truth to it. Not always of course. Depends on what you are researching. But that's what I've done on this topic; I've tried to share what I've learned from a variety of sources.

I may not be able to report on the people from the books I've read and how they got on, but I have met real people who have histories of mental illness and who have not had problems for a decade or longer. Recovery is certainly possible. Sometimes it takes a professional who really knows how to address all possible causes of the problem, who understands what the patient's limitations may be due to medical problems, or drug history, or whatever. And yes it's ideal when that person is a doctor. Much of the info in this topic has come from doctors or has involved doctors. Some of them really do have a holistic grasp of healing, health, and the human body. Unfortunately they are quite rare.

It was a doctor who told me that recovery from mental illness, not involving drugs, is possible. Some doctors are well known for their successful work with the mentally ill. Abram Hoffer is one, and he's worth looking up. His particular success has come from curing the symptoms of schizophrenia by using niacin (vitamin B3) and vitamin C. It is not a blanket cure because everyone is an individual, but he has helped a lot of people.

Some cases are obviously more complicated than others. I have met some people who felt a lot better just by cutting sugar and white flour out of their diets. In general they were not very ill to begin with. Sometimes a problem has multiple causes. I think it's sensible to say that your ME has complicated things for you, and that improving your health is going to take more than popping a multivitamin once a day. I don't pretend to know much about ME and I wouldn't claim I had answers for you. I would, however, say that I don't think depression is supposed to be part of the human condition, and that there can be hope of things improving for you.

I have been told that if light therapy for up to an hour a day does not lift SAD, then there are other issues that need addressing. I trust the authority that this came from, but I do not have facts to back it up and it's something that people here can choose to believe, or not. My experience of talking with people and reading posts here does bear out the idea that many who come here have other factors complicating their condition.

Also, I have read about various studies done on the remaining aboriginal populations of the world, who sustain their traditional diets and ways of life. They tend to be healthy people who on the whole do not experience degenerative diseases like diabetes or heart disease; they tend to have a good set of teeth without cavities; and mental illness is rare. There has been a lot of speculation about why these things should be the case. My own opinion is that something about how we live now, which has changed from how these people live, is causing increasing numbers of us to be ill. It's bound to be a whole spectrum of things, including pollution of our environment, splintered families and social alienation, the stress of modern life, and poor diet. If we attempt to address some of those issues then I think it's logical we can start to feel better. When a person is really desperately ill then they may systematically have to go through a whole gamut of possible causes, but I believe those causes can eventually be found. I have been doing so in my own case because I need to get well. I am positive that getting a job will be a huge help; but that is going to take time, and I may as well look at all possible options. I will be getting my amalgam fillings replaced next month. All 4 of them were put in at the same time, and about 2 months later the depression struck. It is probably coincidence but just in case it isn't, I feel I need to pursue that particular avenue.

False optimism, saying that if you seek you will find? Personally I don't believe so. It sounds like an easy thing to say, I know. But if you really were keen to look into natural healing, you could start on some of the links I've posted here and maybe try some things and decide for yourself.

It also helps to have advice from people who are knowledgeable. There's the Withdrawal and Recovery site. There's also, I discovered, a medical unit in London run by a doctor who studied with Abram Hoffer. They offer various naturopathic services. There are naturopaths around though they can be hard to find, and there are a lot of good books.

Many people say that they've tried the diet/nutrition approach and that it didn't work for them. It depends on what they did. It's easy to rule all of this out if certain aspects didn't work, but that's not to say that a different approach won't work. I used to think I ate a healthy diet but I can see now that it wasn't actually all that healthy. But then we're getting back into areas where we clearly don't see eye to eye. If I told you how you could clean your diet up I expect you wouldn't agree with what I said and would resent me telling you what to do. I hope the links here speak for themselves, there are a number of them that cover aspects of diet.

At the end of the day, none of the things suggested in this topic are going to harm anyone, and they could help. You could say there's no proof they will. You could also say that there's no way for you to know how you will personally react unless you try it for yourself. You've tried a few approaches with diet and nutrition. I doubt if you will have run the whole gamut of possible options. And again, with the ME, it's likely to be a complicated issue for you.

Then again, you might simply say that you don't agree with any of this. That's fine too. It's up to you what you want to do and what you try. My main goal in starting this topic was to share what I have learned, to post links, and to let people take what they want out of it. I suspect that most people who dip into it will think it's outlandish and give it up. A few might be interested in some of the ideas here. That's OK with me. If you want to keep debating what I've said here that's fine too, but arguments are exhausting and I don't know if we're likely to accomplish anything, what did we accomplish the last time we argued? We are both poorly and I don't think either of us needs the agitation.

BTW if you want to get onto the depression-as-chemical imbalance track, I've posted a lot of articles about this in Antidepressant Info. I obviously agree with what they say. It's a big topic and potentially a very emotive one, do you really want to go there? I don't think I do. We'd just get into an argument about the efficacy of meds and I think whatever I said would end up offending you because you feel they have helped you.

We seem to be OK with trying to help others on the forum from our respective points of view. Maybe it's best to stick to that?

Linda.

"Most diets need supplementation -- Even 'Good' Ones"

http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v01n03.shtml

A brief article explaining the benefits of supplementing.

The Toxic Chemicals Most Linked to Depression

http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/05/06/15/the_toxic_chemicals_most_linked_to_depression.htm

A discussion of chemicals in daily use which can trigger depressive symptoms, including pesticides, solvents, prescription drugs and heavy metals. Includes advice for reducing exposure to each.

Question: What is the Leaky Gut Syndrome (LGS) and how does it cause us harm?

http://www.lifedynamix.com/articles/Ask-Doctor/Leaky_Gut.html

A detailed, easy-to-follow explanation of what leaky gut syndrome is and its various causes, by Dr. James A. Ferrel. It can produce a variety of symptoms that baffle attempts at diagnosis and can lead to labels for depression, bipolar disorder, autism, ADHD, and even psychosis. It can be the underlying factor in auto-immune disorders. This article describes what is going wrong when LGS develops, and how it can be treated. Candida overgrowth can be a factor in LGS (see link above).

Modern diets contain too much omega-6

"Scientists have long suspected that a lack of omega-3 may contribute to depression, but the latest study suggests that an excess of omega-6 - the fatty acid which is more prevalent in the modern diets - may have more to do with it"

http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?id=60253-modern-diet-may

More about thyroid and depression:

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/thyroid-depression-mental-health/

Explains why T4-only meds don't work. What to get tested, and what DOES work.

How "Modern Medicine" Killed my Brother

by Russell Blaylock, M.D.

Earlier this month, I traveled to Monroe, La., to bury my dear older brother, Charles. Charles was not only a wonderful brother, but he was a man with a heart of gold who always put the needs of others and his family before his own. Charles, unfortunately, began smoking when he was in law school, something I warned him about repeatedly.

Approximately four months ago, I noticed that he was getting hoarse. He brushed it off and continued his hectic schedule. When I again visited him a month later, he was still having the hoarseness. I advised him to see someone about it. He took my advice and saw a local physician group. The doctor was actually too busy to see him and had his nurse see him.

Before he went to the doctor, I told him it was critical that he have the doctor examine his vocal cords. The nurse looked in his throat, but wasn't trained to examine his vocal cords.

Two more weeks passed during which his doctors assured him that it was nothing more than bronchitis. They treated him with steroids and antibiotics, but no one examined his vocal cords.

Misdiagnosis After Misdiagnosis

I pleaded with him to see an Ear, Nose and Throat doctor, but he trusted his doctor. For the next two and a half months, he was treated with steroids and antibiotics. Finally, he developed pneumonia and was admitted to the hospital, what was supposed to be one of the best hospitals in the area.

At the time, I was on vacation in North Carolina. He told me the doctors told him he had a bruit in his carotid artery, a sign of atherosclerosis, and that they wanted to do an arteriogram. I advised him against it, suspecting he, in fact, had a cancer and attempting an arteriogram on someone with such poor pulmonary function would be disastrous. The arteriogram was cancelled. Still, no one had examined his vocal cords.

When I arrived, I called a friend of mine I had gone to medical school with, and asked him to see Charles. Prior to this, I asked the doctor in charge of his respiratory care to add vitamins and magnesium to his IV. While he promised he would, he didn't. Every attempt to get Charles' laboratory studies was met with obstruction based on the Patient Privacy Act. He soon signed the necessary forms and finally I was able to see this closely guarded data.

When I asked his doctor why the magnesium had not been added to his IV, word was sent back to me through the nurse that she had never heard of using magnesium. I sent copies of selected articles showing the immense value of magnesium on pulmonary and cardiovascular function. Still there was no response from the doctor. Not once did this doctor call me, or answer my pages.

Finally, The Diagnosis is Made


My ENT friend did a very good workup and discovered Charles had a large cancer in his left lower lung that was impinging on the nerve to his vocal cord, causing one cord to be completely paralyzed. At that point, a pulmonary physician did a bronchial biopsy and diagnosed a poorly differentiated lung cancer, with no evidence of spread. Once the diagnosis was made, an oncologist was naturally called, who wanted to start a complete course of chemotherapy drugs.

I advised my brother against it, knowing the cancer would not respond and the toxic drugs would dramatically increase his breathing difficulties, hastening his death. He took my advice. Then, a radiation oncologist suggested radiating the tumor to shrink it. I wasn't supportive of this treatment, but my brother wanted something done.

Soon afterward, he started five and a half weeks of radiation treatment. At that point, I started him on a nutrition program and he began to feel better, his breathing improved and he was able to go back to work.

However, the oncologist told Charles he was losing too much weight and he needed to eat more bread, pasta and even sweets to gain weight. Charles, at the time of his diagnosis, was grossly overweight and needed to lose the weight. I told him that losing the weight would make it easier for him to breath. I had given him a copy of my book on the nutritional treatment of cancer and told him it was critical he follow the advice exactly.

Unfortunately, Charles decided he didn't like the taste of the blenderized vegetables and would do what the oncologist suggested. He began to eat ice cream, cookies and other items that cancer patients should never eat. Once he finished the radiation treatments, he developed fever, severe shortness of breath and had to be admitted to the hospital.

The "Evidence Based" Physicians Take Over

Sadly, he chose a hospital that was even more rigid in its control of the patient than his previous hospital. It was a local hospital affiliated with the Louisiana State University Medical Center. Charles was admitted to the intensive care unit, where he had to be intubated and placed on a respirator.

Again, I was out of town, in fact, giving a talk at the Westin Price Conference in Washington, D.C., on nutrition. As before, I could not pry any information about my brother concerning his laboratory test, chest x-rays or the reason he was deteriorating so rapidly. His doctor refused to call me, despite numerous attempts by my sister and me to have her call.

In all my 26 years of neurosurgical practice, I have never seen a situation where a doctor treating a gravely ill patient would not discuss the case with a family member who is a physician. It was as if my brother belonged to the hospital and his physician and the family was to be kept in the dark.

Finally, I was able to speak to one of the consulting doctors, who told me my brother had a very low hemoglobin count. I asked him if he was giving him blood.

After a long pause, he answered, "No." I responded, " Well, with him unable to breath, don't you think it would be a good idea to increase his oxygen-carrying capacity by giving him blood?" He mumbled in agreement. I told him that I wanted my sister and her son to give the blood and that they were in the process of doing that as we spoke. He agreed. Yet, before my sister could have the blood transferred to Charles, the doctors had already given him blood from unknown donors.

I rushed to my brother's side and found him awake, on a respirator and very frightened. He was receiving no magnesium in his IV and was getting a tube feeding-formula that contains significant doses of glutamate, something known to cause pulmonary deterioration. Again, his doctor never heard of that.

An Incredible Admission

At that point, Charles was lapsing into a coma. Still his doctor had not contacted me or communicated with me in any way. Disgusted, I told the nurse to have her come to the room and I didn't want any excuses. I asked to speak to her in private. She insisted a nurse remain with her. I told her of my absolute amazement that a treating physician would not speak to the family, especially when one of the family members was a doctor. She denied she had ever gotten a message, which was a bold-faced lie.

I then told her that I wanted my brother to have certain supplements that had been shown in careful medical studies to improve lung function. She had never heard of them, but agreed to give them if her superior, the Chief of Medicine, agreed. Therefore, I gave her a stack of medical abstracts and told her to let me know if there was a problem.

Within five minutes, she returned and stated that he would not agree to it and responded that the Chief of Medicine told her that he would not agree to change the treatment based on abstracts. I told her I wanted to talk with him that minute.

He arrived, looking very arrogant and self-important. I decided that I would try to calmly discuss with him my brother's case and why he needed the supplements. Again, I asked for a private meeting. He wanted Charles' doctor to be present.

I explained to him what I was asking for was backed up by peer-reviewed studies and that none of the supplements had ever shown any harmful side effects in any dose. In a very arrogant tone, totally unsympathetic to my concern for my brother, he stated that he only read and trusted four journals:

Lancet
New England Journal of Medicine
Annals of Internal Medicine
Journal of the American Medical Association
Shocked that anyone would admit to being so intellectually limited, I told him there were thousands of peer-reviewed medical journals, most of which were reputable. He responded that he didn't have time to read or look up additional material.

What an admission!

I reminded him I practiced neurosurgery for 26 years and was a hell of a lot busier than he had ever been. I also told him I had managed to write three books and 30 articles for peer-reviewed journals in addition to three chapters for medical textbooks. He had no comment.

I told him I found it inconceivable that a physician holding the position of Chief of Staff in a teaching hospital would:

Admit they read only four journals
Didn't have time to research material that would improve a patient's care
Would be so obstinate and filled with so much self-importance they would allow a patient to die rather than try something that had strong clinical evidence of benefit without any complications
The doctor still refused to change his mind.

I pointed out to him, for 20 years there was a mountain of evidence that magnesium offered tremendous protection to the heart and brain, but because of people like him, it was only recently that magnesium has been added to the "protocol" for heart patients. I, then, reminded both of them that tens of thousands of patients died during that 20-year period because of their unwillingness to use a harmless mineral like magnesium. Then I said, " Is my brother to die because of your narrow mindedness and arrogance"?

I pointedly asked him if he could see the logic, the reasoning behind what I was asking. He responded that he did up until to the point about all the people that must die because of waiting for the elite of medicine to make up their mind. I turned to the female physician and asked her the same question. She said she agreed with the logic but trusted her chief.

Blind Leading the Blind

I asked the Chief of Medicine if he would want the same treatment for his brother. He thought a minute and then said, "Yes." He again, appealed to the fact that he didn't have time to research all these things. I reminded him that his job was to do whatever was necessary to provide his patients with the best medical care, based on the latest medical evidence available no matter how much time he had to sacrifice. He could not fall back on time constraints or the fact that he trusted only four journals.

The Chief of Medicine left, a lot less openly arrogant and self-assured. He was not able to give a single argument to support his intellectually bankrupt concept of medicine.

It reminded me of the title of a book I had recently purchased: Intellectual Morons. He certainly fit the description. Before he left, I reminded him it was doctors like him who were the problem in modern medicine -- arrogant, condescending to patients and certain the medical care protocols established by the elitist academians were holy writ. Further, it was because of such an attitude that patients by the millions were leaving the medical care system, and seeking answers from so-called alternative medicine.

Patients were fed up with having drugs and treatments shoved down their throats that only led to more misery and rarely helped their disease.

The Danger of Regimentation

The practice of medicine has changed drastically in the world, especially in this country. When I first entered the world of medicine, doctors were able to practice independently, always maintaining a close relationship between themselves, the patient and the patient's family. Creative, caring doctors could alter their care to match new developments in medicine and nutrition to the greatest benefit of their patients. Third parties such as insurance companies, government and medical elite were held at bay.

Yet, the new thinking is that the practicing physician, and especially the patient, is unable to make these decisions. Instead, they are to follow a system of regimented medicine that assigns treatment protocols the physician is to blindly follow.

Elite boards appointed by medical associations, such as the American Medical Association, American Academy of Family Practice and others, design these treatment protocols and hand them down to the "ignorant automatons" making up the vast majority of treating physicians. They are to follow these regimented treatments without question and to the letter.

The new breed of doctor, like my brother's doctors, fits this new pattern well. They are convinced this "cookbook" medicine is superior and their elite journals and medical associations know best. Like members of the society Aldous Huxley described in A Brave New World, they are mere cogs in the wheel of the state's machinery. They do not question the authorities or the wisdom of their decrees. They do what they are told. They are unable to think for themselves.

In fact, I asked Charles' doctor, "Can you not think for yourself?" She looked at me sheepishly and said, "I just trust the Chief of Medicine."

I also reminded the arrogant Chief of Medicine these elite decision-making bodies have been racked with scandals that involved financial connections to pharmaceutical companies and other medical product manufacturers. In addition, similar scandals occurred among the editorial staff of one of his favorite journals, the New England Journal of Medicine.

This collectivist regimentation of medicine will only get worse. Families are now excluded from medical care decisions, doctors do not talk to families, the entire hospital experience is shrouded in secrecy and patients have no say in their care. While more innovative doctors can alter the protocols or even reject them, soon they will not have that option. To deviate from the collectivist plan is to invite the wrath of the legal system.

Fear of Financial Ruin

Litigation pushes many physicians into following elitist protocols out of fear of financial ruin. In fact, these protocols have become the "standard of care" used by the legal system. Unfortunately, doctors, like those who killed my brother, are being turned out of medical schools all over the country like robots. They repeat the mantra of collectivism as if they thought of it themselves. To this new breed of doctors, individualism and independent thought is to be discouraged and reviled. Dependence on elite leaders will be automatic.

As an example, I recently spoke to a large group concerning the harmful effects of glutamate, explaining it is now known that glutamate, as added to foods, significantly accelerates the growth and spread of cancers. I asked the crowd when was the last time an oncologist told his or her patient to avoid MSG or foods high in glutamate. The answer, I said, was never.

After the talk, a crowd gathered to ask more questions. Suddenly, I was interrupted by a young woman who identified herself as a radiation oncologist. She angrily stated, "I really took offense to your comment about oncologists not telling their patients about glutamate."

I turned to her and asked, "Well, do you tell your patients to avoid glutamate?" She looked puzzled and said, "No one told us to." I asked her who this person or persons were whose job it was to provide her with this information. I, then, reminded her that I obtained this information from her oncology journals. Did she not read her own journals?

Yet, this is the attitude of the modern doctor. An elitist group is in charge of disseminating all the information physicians are to know. If they do not tell them, then, in their way of thinking, the information was of no value. Of course, 10 or 20 years from now, it may be the new standard and on all the protocols.

How many cancer patients will have died during the long wait for the elitists to conclude the information was important? A million? Five million? Do they even care?

In my conversation with the two physicians responsible for my brother's "care," they obviously didn't care.

It is too late for my brother. But, maybe, just maybe, if enough people decide they do not care to leave their fate and that of their loved ones in the hands of these arrogant regimented physicians, something will change.

Another thing that might be worth considering is mercury toxicity. This can come from dental amalgams and vaccines, among other things.

I had my 4 amalgams removed 2 1/2 months ago and have done several rounds of chelation since. I have noticed a definite positive difference in my symptoms.

I also talk on a good mercury/amalgam forum which is quite a busy place. I've met others there who have experienced SAD-like symptoms and some who used to think, like me, that SAD was their main problem.

Mercury is known to interfere with thyroid function and melatonin production. The hypothalamus is one of the main areas of the brain that mercury seems to target. It goes right through the jaw where the amalgams are.

Not everyone who has fillings experiences mercury toxicity. Some people are better at eliminating it than others. Most doctors and dentists still deny that amalgams are a problem but there is growing evidence that chronic low-level mercury exposure can be implicated in all kinds of health problems, from depression to ME.

If you have a mouthful of fillings and are troubled by SAD, I would suggest considering amalgam removal by a dentist who will follow safe removal protocols. It's another potential strategy to add to the arsenal.

Dr Mercola
http://www.mercola.com/index.htm

Weston A. Price Foundation
http://www.westonaprice.org/splash_2.htm

This is a fascinating topic. I have to confess I skimmed much of it, but I have long thought that diet is so essential to health. I'm convinced that the prevalence of many diseases and ills in modern western society can be directly attributable to the cr@p we put into our bodies. It isn't the only reason, for sure, but it is a significant factor.

It's easy to say that, and much more difficult to act on it. I don't believe nutrition can replace drugs - though in my case various lifestyle changes certainly delayed the need to be put on antidepressants. And then for many months they were an amazing addition to my life. I'm now hacked off with them but that's another story.

I'm very concerned about what I eat, and am a big carb-fan (but healthy ones! Potatoes! Pasta! Rice! Fill you up and good for you! Or not, apparently!!). I may experiment with cutting out big carbs.

My main problem is time. I dislike cooking, and my nearest shop is 5 miles away which means shopping for fresh veg is very difficult. I need recipes and ideas - I have no imagination where cookery is concerned!

I believe in holistic practises: Western medicine yes, treats the symptoms without looking at the whole picture in many cases. If you eat rubbish, you will more than likely have problems, whether you notice them or not. I never find it easy to act on my beliefs though.

I'm rambling now...

A basic nutritional healing regime.

Nutritious diet -- see posts toward the beginning of this thread.

Supplements. It's ideal to visit a naturopath and get a specific regime prescribed for you, ideally with some testing of which deficiencies you have, and what toxins may be in your system. But a very general healing regime is this:

A high-quality multivitamin with all the B-vitamins in high amounts

Vitamin C, at least 3g per day, in divided doses

Fish oil (for omega-3)

Magnesium citrate, malate, chelate, or taurate, 800mg per day, in divided doses

Calcium, 400mg per day, in divided doses. Do not take with magnesium as calcium interferes with its absorption.

Other things you can look at: A colloidal mineral supplement. Vitamin D3. Vitamin E (d-alpha tocopherol with mixed tocopherols, or gamma tocopherol if available).

There are many other possibilities, depending on your needs (i.e.whether your immune system is compromised, whether you are deficient in a particular nutrient, whether you are healing from drug damage, doing chelation, etc). There are also many herbs with healing powers, and other things that help too like homeopathy, traditional Chinese medicine, and Bach Flower Essences. These can all be very useful, though make sure you research what you are doing carefully before you try, and get the help of an expert if you can.

I firmly believe this: it is a very rare condition that cannot be treated with these methods, coupled with addressing one's life issues and learning techniques like relaxation and meditation. The mind and the body can almost always heal themselves, given the right support from their caretaker.

One day I hope this will all be part of mainstream medicine, and available on the NHS. In the meantime it's up to us to take responsibility for our health and learn what our doctors don't know. My own GP says he used traditional Chinese medicine to cure his asthma, so maybe there's hope :)

You might have heard of something called the glycemic index. Potatoes are a very high glycemic index food. They are also often prepared in unhealthy ways, e.g. frying in vegetable oil.

Having said that, what matters is one's overall state of health. If the rest of your diet is great, you are emotionally and physically healthy, and you exercise, then probably you don't need to worry about the odd less-than-healthy food you eat. I doubt that many people on this forum meet that description or they wouldn't be here.

I understand how hard it can be to change one's diet when there are particular foods that are loved or that are difficult to avoid. My suggestion is simply that if you're interested in this, do a little homework and find out what benefits changing your diet can bring, and hopefully then you will feel like you are empowering, rather than depriving, yourself. I think the mercola site www.mercola.com is a great place to start if you are looking for nutritional info.

Hope this helps,
Linda.

I hope you've found some info here that is helpful to you.

Just a thought, but could amalgams be part of the problem? I also talk on a mercury forum and depression, chemical sensitivities and candida are all common signs of chronic mercury poisoning. They may of course be completely unrelated, but it's another avenue to possibly consider.

Take care and I'm always happy to chat.

It sounds more likely, from what you say, that mercury from amalgams could be your problem. Mercury has an affinity for the brain and unless you take something to chelate it out, it will stay there. This can certainly happen with a cracked and leaking filling. What's more, the metallic taste is also a strong indicator.

I looked into seeing a biological dentist, who will take the necessary precautions when removing amalgams, but it was very costly. So I decided to take a risk by paying to have them out without precautions, by my usual dentist. In the short term it may have saved money, but in the long term it's going to take me more time to get better and it's going to cost more in chelating agents, because of the added mercury exposure from that removal.

Sometimes we simply can't put a price on our health. If your symptoms worsen over time, you might wonder if it was worth doing something about the amalgams previously. I've seen some very ill people on the forum I belong to.

Just a word of warning -- trying to chelate while you still have amalgams is dangerous and could cause your body to absorb even more mercury. It needs to be done once the amalgams are gone.

If you're interested in pursuing this, this is a very good forum where you can introduce yourself and ask for advice and support: http://herballure.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB19&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=

Hope this helps :)
Linda.

Hi Linda:
I too, have been working with a naturopath and have changed my diet dramatically (quite similar to yours). Do you still find you need to use a lighbox to help with your SAD, or has nutrition completely taken care of it. Thanks. (I'm definitely still having problems with SAD, even with the diet changes).

Eating Your Way Through the Winter Blahs

from Caring Nutrition, Illinois

http://caringnutrition.com/are_you_sad.htm

Have you noticed that people are getting a little crankier these days? Are you waking up in the mornings wishing you lived on a tropical island with palm trees swaying in the breeze? Is the cold and dreariness getting you down? Eating right help you tackle a cold, long, winter.

What should you do? Don't just resolve to hibernate, waiting for the warm weather to return.

Instead, try some of these simple ways to help chase away the winter blahs. A case of the winter blues is not the same as the condition called Seasonal Affective Disorder, or SAD, but they tend to have similar symptoms.

Approximately 10 million Americans suffer from SAD, with symptoms including severe depression and fatigue. This depressive disorder is due, in part, to a lack of bright sunshine. Lights that help simulate that bright light are available and many people find that this helps a lot. But what else is contributing? Let’s take a look at what you’re eating.

Food: Breakfast is the most important meal of the day. Start out the day with a meal that contains some protein and low in simple carbohydrates and sugar, but high in complex carbohydrates, such as whole grains. This will help you achieve peak mental performance during the day.

Caffeine can improve mental alertness but limit its use to prevent addiction. It can leave you with unpleasant withdrawal symptoms such as stress, anxiety and irritability, and can be detrimental to overall health. We are not saying that you should not consume ANY caffeine, just don’t become addicted to it. Speaking of caffeine – we want to let you know that we do not recommend decaffeinated coffee/tea. The decaffeination process adds more chemical to the products and can actually lead to a whole slue of other problems, one of them rheumatoid arthritis.

If you eat a significant amount of carbohydrates and/or caffeine and sugar, you may be suffering from hypoglycemia, which could be contributing to your “blue” feeling. The fluctuating high and low swings in blood sugar in this condition can produce anxiety, depression, irritability, and a sense of loss of control. The condition is very common. Targeted nutritional supplementation and dietary modifications can stop the Jekyll-Hyde like transformations.

The sugar connection:
We find in our patients at Caring Medical that most of the problems feeling blue or melancholy are related to the brain not getting enough or the appropriate energy. Without enough energy, the body feels irritable, fatigued, and the person is unable to concentrate.

Why does this happen? In 8/10 cases that we see here at the clinic, the cause is related to low blood sugar. Some people can eat one time per day and feel good. But the average person must eat throughout the day. One huge meal per day is not a good way to eat. The person will begin the day with a very low blood sugar level. This fasting state will not be broken until the “fast” is broken with a meal. In the meantime, the person is suffering from the effects of low blood sugar. When the person eats, it produces a fast rise in blood sugar, with a resultant DROP after the meal. We all know what this feels like having eaten like this at Thanksgiving! Bottom line: Reduce simple carbohydrates, increase protein and good fats, and eat breakfast.

If you are female, and you notice that your symptoms cycle with the menstrual period, you should get hormone testing. Cycle related imbalances are easily and safely corrected with identical to natural hormones. Simple dietary maneuvers can also make a big difference. For women, progesterone is a calming hormone. Women with low progesterone levels are prone to agitation and irritability. Women who also have high testosterone levels are also prone to irritability as well. It is very beneficial to get your hormones checked for this reason. This can be especially problematic for a woman who is just starting to undergo menopause.

It is not unusual for us to see women RUN into our office in a panic who are overcome with sudden anxiety and memory loss. Come to find out, they have just begun the process of menopause and have experienced sudden drops in hormone levels that are producing these symptoms. These can be alleviated with natural hormone replacement therapy. Sometimes we see this kind of response worsened by the continuation of a bleak and dreary winter season.

Men, on the other hand, are energized by testosterone. However, if their levels of testosterone are high, and they have no “outlet” such as physical activity, exercise, sex with their spouse, etc., then they can experience severe mood problems, such as anxiety, irritability, and depression. Low levels of testosterone can also lead to lethargy, listlessness, inactivity, and resultant obesity. Again, it is important to get the levels checked.

Low cortisol levels (stress hormone) can also cause inability to handle stress well, which can definitely affect one’s mood. They may cry easily, feel depressed, and are filled with anxiety.

Feelings of depression may be due to growth hormone, sex hormone, or adrenal hormone deficiencies or vitamin and mineral imbalances, especially B12 deficiency attributed to inadequate dietary intake and failing digestive and absorptive functions. Sometimes our bodies require a little digestive support with digestive enzymes to help us better assimilate the foods that we eat.

The needs of the brain may help neurons to achieve the most desirable chemical balance naturally. The brain being a hungry organ depends first of all on a healthy liver and gastrointestinal tract to use food well: to properly absorb nutrients and deliver them to the brain, to remove toxins and to maintain proper immune system activity.

Fat: Because the brain cells are largely composed of fat, the right kinds of fat in the diet are one of the most critical elements in creating and maintaining brain health.

The same precious omega 3 fatty acids that promote healthy hearts can also help our brain and mood. Primary sources of those health-giving fats are fatty cold-water fish including salmon, mackerel, anchovies, sardines, herring and Atlantic sturgeon.

Eat fish a minimum of three times per week if you can. If you just can’t manage that, try taking a fish oil supplement. Canola, olive and flax are good plant sources of Omega-3 fatty acids, along with flax seeds, which can also be ground and added to foods are also a good source.

The B-complex vitamins work in chorus to promote brain and immune system health by protecting nerve tissue against oxidation, enhancing memory, mood, and insulating nerve cells. Your body requires B vitamins to produce many neurotransmitters. Besides meat, there are many good vegetarian sources of B vitamins, including whole grain pasta, grains, rice, wheat germ and nuts.

Anti-oxidants: Because the brain in made up largely of fatty acids, it is susceptible to oxidation damage caused by free radicals - highly reactive molecules that attack and damage cell membranes, protein and even our genetic code - and in doing so bring about age and disease. So if you have been “super-sizing it” all winter on fast food products, now is the time to change!

Antioxidants are nutrients which combat and neutralize free radicals. The primary weapons in this ongoing fight are vitamins C and E, carotenoids and the mineral selenium. Many foods are rich sources of antioxidants. Carotenoids are found in dark orange and dark green leafy vegetable, such as carrots, sweet potatoes, kale and spinach. Vitamin C is found in citrus fruits and vegetable like broccoli and peppers. Vitamin E is found in seeds and nuts as well as soybeans and vegetable oils. Selenium is present in seafood, grains and Brazil nuts.

Hormones and Mood:
The brain likes the hormone Serotonin. It is the “happy hormone”. Serotonin is made from protein. If you do not get adequate protein in the diet, you will not get adequate serotonin. This is another reason to reduce simple carbohydrates and sugar and to increase protein and complex carbohydrates in the diet.

Heavy metals: Finally, heavy metal toxicity may play a role in mood and memory. There are many ways that we can become toxic to heavy metals. The most common one is from leakage from mercury fillings in our dental work. We also get heavy metal from some of the things we consume, such as Aluminum from canned products and cookware. It is best to avoid those things. Regular deodorant also contains aluminum, which should be avoided. Again, if you suspect this is a problem, find a physician who practices both traditional and non-traditional medicine and get checked out.

In summary, how food can affect your mood during the winter blahs:

- Eat breakfast, don’t skip meals.

- Eat fish and omega 3 fatty acids regularly (fish at least three times per week)

- Consume adequate protein every day, lowering simple carbohydrate intake such as sugar.

- Get rid of the chemically-laden junk foods!

- Do not become addicted to caffeine. Drink water too!

- Check hormones and supplement as needed.

- Add antioxidants to your diet, dark green leafy veggies, nuts, oils

- Add supplements per your natural medicine physician’s recommendations

In short, the way we eat can not only help us be more intelligent, alert and successful in mental activities, but also more balanced in our emotions and behavior, especially during the winter blah times. The way to build a foundation for a healthy mind/mood is with a healthy diet and supplementation.

Lifestyle factors: A lifestyle which includes ample relaxation time, meditation, proper exercise and plenty of sleep all help to regenerate and invigorate our mental state. Many physicians recommend light therapy as one part of their treatment for SAD patients or patients who are affected by lack of sunlight or winter dull-drums.

Here are some additional lifestyle recommendations to help get you through the winter:

- Get as much natural sunlight as possible, especially during the middle of the day. Open the blinds. Sit by a window to absorb sunlight while reading or during other indoor activities. Take a walk at lunch.

- Reduce stress. Avoid rushing and keep your schedules as simple as possible. Remember, less is more! Plan relaxation time into your day with music, quiet time or meditation. If you are having trouble in this department, see one of our doctors to help you with ways to reduce your stress.

- Make sure you get plenty of sleep. Poor sleep can really contribute to the blahs. If you are having trouble sleeping, you not only feel badly, but your body does not repair itself. Our doctors can help you regulate your sleep if needed.

- Exercise. Stay physically active throughout the winter months. Indoor activities can be useful stress relievers. Bundle up and run outside! That will get you going! Physical exercise can release hormones and neurochemicals that may help restore your body's natural balance.

- Bring live flowers or plants to your home or office.

- Enjoy a soak in a warm bath. Try Epsom salts if you have aches and pains.

- Take charge of your health and enhance your vitality and well-being. Renew your fitness goals.

- Pick up a new CD, one that makes you want to move around and dance. Crank up the volume and have some fun!

- Rent a crazy or fun movie to watch — something that will make you laugh.

- Get involved in your community. Whether volunteering for a homeless shelter or in your local school, there are many ways to reach out, and in turn, will help you feel better.

- Try a new recipe or food item. Be adventurous. Adding a little excitement to your kitchen may be just what you need. Try one of ours!

If you believe that you or someone you know may be suffering from the winter blahs or seasonal affective disorder, please give us a call. At Caring Medical, we find that often times, food, in addition to hormones and lack of specific nutrients, play a role in how you feel, particularly as it relates to SAD-type symptoms. Give us a call today at 708-848-7789!

I agree, though some of the advice is tailored to people who have the symptoms of SAD. Low thyroid function, for example, can be a common contributor. I've seen some people on thyroid forums talking about how SAD was one of the symptoms that pointed them to what the underlying problem was. I wish I'd known to pursue various routes listed here, and maybe the 3 1/2 years of grinding depression I've experienced would have been shortened.

Wow, that's great news Me! It has to be said, I haven't heard of the Hauser diet. As long as it includes plenty of the things the body needs to be healthy then that's great.

Cholesterol -- again, high LDL is caused by problems with diet, usually too many processed foods, refined grains and sugars. But cholesterol can be a bit high without there being any dangers. Very low cholesterol is actually a huge health risk. You might be interested in this site http://www.thincs.org/index.htm It is mainly doctors who talk there:

The International network of Cholesterol Skeptics

"The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics (THINCS) is a steadily growing group of scientists, physicians, other academicians and science writers from various countries. Members of this group represent different views about the causation of atherosclerosis and cardiovascular disease, some of them are in conflict with others, but this is a normal part of science. What we all oppose is that animal fat and high cholesterol play a role. The aim with this website is to inform our colleagues and the public that this idea is not supported by scientific evidence; in fact, for many years a huge number of scientific studies have directly contradicted it."

Cholesterol is vital for the body. A large percentage of the brain is made of cholesterol. It also helps repair the damage done by atherosclerosis. Researchers have found cholesterol at the scene of the crime, as it were, and arrested it as the culprit when it is really there to help.

It's been alarming to find out just how misinformed most doctors are, on a great number of issues. I'm going to avoid them as a hazard to my health unless they are the kind who would prescribe a vitamin or mineral.

Here are the ingredients of the multi vit I take.

wo (2) tablets provide: Vitamin C (as Calcium Ascorbate)300mg Nutrient/Herbal Powder Base260mg (Providing Alfalfa, Rosehip Extract, Citrus Bioflavonoids, Rutin, Siberian Ginseng, Echinacea Purpurea Root, Suma Root, Spirulina, Lecithin, Dong Quai, Oat Fibre, Parsley,Watercress, Hesperidin Complex, Guar Gum) Isolated Soya Protein Powder200mg Vitamin E (200iu, as d-alpha tocopheryl succinate)134mg Calcium (as amino acid chelate+, carbonate)64mg Thiamin (Vitamin B1, as thiamine mononitrate)100mg Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine hydrochloride)100mg Pantothenic Acid (as calcium pantothenate)100mg Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) 100mg Niacin (as niacinamide)100mg Inositol100mg Choline (as bitartrate) 41mg Natural Source Beta Carotene (as prep.)2400ug Providing other carotenoids13ug Magnesium (as oxide, buffered amino acid chelate+)32mg Iron (as bisglycinate++)10mg Boron (as sodium borate, citric acid)1mg Betaine HCl25mg Zinc (as oxide, amino acid chelate+)15mg Manganese (as gluconate, amino acid chelate+)2mg Soya Lecithin20mg Vitamin B12 (as cobalamin prep.) 100ug Copper (as gluconate, amino acid chelate+)1500ug Biotin (as prep.)100ug Vitamin D (400iu, as D2, ergocalciferol prep.)10ug L-Orthinine HCl 6mg Selenium (as selenomethionine)25ug L-Glutathione 5mg Taurine5mg Folic Acid (as prep.)400ug lodine (as potassium iodide prep.) 150ug Chromium (as picolinate, yeast free, nicotinoglycinate amino acid chelate+)25ug

+Special multi-chelate formula providing minerals complexed as amino acid chelates, citrates, aspartates, picolinates and highly absorbable mineral forms from Albion Process Patent #4,599,152 chelazomes. ++Unique form of chelated iron (iron bisglycinate)

Tableted with these natural ingredients: microcrystalline cellulose, stearic acid, silicon dioxide, magnesium stearate, cellulose gum, hydroxypropylmethyl cellulose, Vegetable Glycerin, Riboflavin.



There is a better milti vit than above.
Could someone please let me know if I'm allowed to post a link to the products?

This link seemed pretty informative...

Bioflavonoids