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SAD Whinger

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Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 11:04 26 July 2005

Hi All

I’m new round these parts, and I thought no forum like this existed in any case. I hope you are all winning this year’s battle.

SAD gradually took over my life from about the age of 12, and it has turned me into a 29-year-old complete suicidal loser. The only bonus from it is that although the thought of being an actor terrifies me; I produce Oscar winning performances every day trying to fit in with society’s expectations of me. This February I finally realised that there was something wrong with me that positive thinking would never overcome. Every year my optimism would return in August only to crash in September. Previously my GP diagnosed me with depression; antidepressants and counselling did either nothing or made matters worse – to be honest I deluded myself that I could overcome it without help.

Last autumn was my last attempt at a normal life and everything fell apart like clockwork. I was set to end it all, but a friend taking a year out in Australia gave me a glimmer of hope to fight on. Rather than going back for another futile trip to my GP I searched the internet using what I thought might be symptoms of a condition other than depression. SAD came up as the top hit, but I had heard of it before and only thought that it was depression in mid winter; nevertheless, I was curious to read the NHS direct encyclopaedia page anyway. Everything that I have experienced from my early teens was listed as a symptom. Seeing how long the symptoms can persist made me review my life; and in that instance the seasonal pattern of my suffering became obvious – I cannot believe that I missed it, my GP missed it, my family and friends missed it, and even my teachers too. The main problem is that I have been fighting so hard to fit in, that I have been concealing my suffering as much as possible.

My GP has been less than helpful, and reluctant to agree with my self-diagnosis; the story is the same with the psychiatrist that he referred me to. They tried me on venlafaxine, but along with the other side affects, I became even more suicidal. I have invested in some light boxes, but I do not seem to get the same level of relief that I read that some SAD suffers get by using them. This year I would normally be improving now, but things are worse than ever. I am confused about my past, by being taken over, by the body and mind snatching SAD, and I wonder who I really am. I am scarred for the future, because I don’t seem to be getting the help that I so desperately need – where are these mythical NHS specialist SAD clinics that I keep reading about. I keep telling people that I cannot face another year like the previous years, but it seems to be falling on deaf ears.

The only time that I have been completely symptom free since developing SAD was during a field trip to Corsica in the year 2000. Looking at data from the met office this is obvious because although the summer was poor, the spring was amazing for sun light, and then I went to Corsica for a fortnight in June. My confidence and energy levels have never been so great. Upon returning to England I was all right for a week – I managed to ace an Asda selection day to get a job in that time. Since then I have tried to get a degree, but even after I switched to the Open University, I couldn’t concentrate enough to get the coursework done.

Currently I am still an employee of Waitrose, but because of my amazing acting skills, I don’t think that the managers understand my position. I’ve been signed off work since the end of February. Normally I would have never gone back, but knowing that the problem isn’t just me, I have tried to hang in there. They are making things difficult, and with the way that I feel now, I don’t think that I will ever work their again. When I tried returning to my line manager told me that I should be grateful for what I have got, especially my health – referring to the fact that the deputy manager had been diagnosed with a dodgey heart valve. I laughed inside; I don’t even know who I am: all I know is that I’m ugly, I ‘m lonely, I don’t feel loved, I’ve never been in a relationship, every waking moment is like being tortured, and I am consumed by thinking about my suffering all of the time. The irony is that I wanted to become a doctor to help other people, and now I feel like I cannot even help myself. Thinking about all of those people with more severe problems, just makes me feel even worse for stewing in my world of self-pity. Oh yes, I forgot to include that I hate myself.

I honestly don’t know why I am still clinging to life. I suppose it is because it is such a miraculous gift, but I cannot take much more. This year should have been one of the best knowing what is wrong with me, but instead it has been one of the worst, and now I probably have clinical depression and extreme stress on top of my SAD just to make matters more interesting. And this is all I can do constructively – whinge. Once upon a time I was a straight ‘A’ grade student, and now I’m an ‘A’ grade loser.

I sincerely hope that you can all learn to live with SAD. I for one am losing the battle without the help that I have pleaded for. I should be around until September at least, but after that I couldn’t say. Moving abroad is probably the only true solution for me, but I do not have the money nor the right mind set to organise anything. In fact, the thought of going alone terrifies me, because I feel lonely enough as it is.

Love to you all

Joel xXx
siddy
joined 22 Jan 2003
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Posted by siddy, 20:52 26 July 2005

Hello Joel,
there is a lot of issues in your posting and firstly I would like to ask what keeps you alive? This includes what you enjoy from life and if you have family e.t.c. If you are alive because suicide is too scary to contemplate that is a reason also.
Why do you need to undertake a degree course?
Do you need to work for financial reasons, have you been on the dole?
How do you see your future options?
What would you like to see change in your life.

This might help me understand where you are coming from..............

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 17:25 27 July 2005

Hello Siddy,

In answer to your questions:

A faint glimmer of hope, fear of hurting others that care about me, and the fact that life is so special has kept me going. Suicide is not scary for me; I would rather live, but I have been worn down by SAD to the point where I would rather die than face my life continuing as I have survived in the past. I live with my parents, because I cannot afford to move out. My dad is a bit of a miserable ogre, and it seems that his side of the family is to blame for my SAD. I get on well with my mother, but she doesn’t fully understand me; neither is she very bright. Since my older sister moved out I don’t see her very often. My relationships with my extended family members are far from brilliant due to my anxiety preventing me from visiting them most of the year. Since the last of my grand parents died I have fought hard to get to know other family members, but I have less than desirable communication skills. If you saw me, you would see how I struggle to show physical affection, but inside I am a deeply caring person. The only enjoyment I get from life is helping others, and seeing other people happy.

I’ve been trying to get a degree, because I thought it would help improve my employment prospects. Before I diagnosed myself, I blamed most of my problems on being in low paid, stressful and depressing jobs. Knowing how intelligent I am I kept trying to better myself, but during the academic year I couldn’t function. SAD ruined my GCSEs, caused me to drop out of my A-levels, and obliterated my degree in a subject that I ended up studying by shear coincidences. When I diagnosed myself, and read that SAD is treatable, I hoped that it would mean that I could train towards a worthwhile career as a doctor – I had wanted to become since I first thought about careers.

Yes I do need to work for financial reasons, and trying to live with SAD whilst skint just makes the symptoms even worse due to the added stress and isolation. I have been on income support and then jobseeker’s allowance many times in the past, but recently I have tried to avoid it because of the pressures that the employment service put on me – they thought I was lazy me thinks.

I have three major future options: suicide; living with SAD in the UK; or moving abroad. The first option currently looks the most likely, unless I get some help. The second option could be viable if I get more help than is currently being offered to me. The last option is unrealistic since I have no money, and the thought trying to set up a new life by myself, frankly, is too much for me to get my head around in my current state.

Changes in my life: I want to be normal; I want to make my own decisions, and not have my SAD symptoms make them for me. I want my confidence back so that I can go out and make more friends, and actually have a girlfriend. I want a worthwhile rewarding job where I can help people, and use my brain. I want to not feel exhausted all of the time. I want my headache to go away, so that I can think clearly. I want to be able to read a book without forgetting the previous sentence. I want to be able to concentrate, and think about things other than how crap SAD makes me feel all of the time. I want not to feel ugly, like a failure, scared, lonely, and anxious. I want not to be a ninja winja. Yes, I reiterate, I want not to be SAD.

Hope that helps...
oldhippy
joined 6 Jul 2003
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Posted by oldhippy, 19:04 27 July 2005

Hi Joel

Althought its the summer break for many of the saddies I think there is many that can relate to what you have said.

We all have diffrent experences with SAD and all come to terms that we are not total loonies but people that have a disorder that effects our normal funching in the winter and at times can overspill into summer if we let it.

From all walks of life we come, the poor, the rich and the quite silly. But all with support for other Saddies. Some of us disapear but most reapear as the winter arives yet again to have its fun with us.....

keep smiling :D
siddy
joined 22 Jan 2003
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Posted by siddy, 08:57 29 July 2005

Joel,
There is a book called 'winter blues' by Norman Rosenthal that I think is important you read. Secondly although the weather is awful at the moment and this is contributing to your depression I feel there are a lot of other unresolved issues in your life.
As for suicide I think you need to decide if this is an option. I decided in 1991 (I was 23) that I couldn't go through with it (after a pitiful failed attempt) and to stop wasting time debating it or thinking of methods to do it. I still sometimes wish to end it all but I push it to the back of my mind I don't waste time on it.
I have managed to find work by undertaking voluntary work as I have no desire to learn due to lack of cognitive ability and concentration. Formal education is not the only way forward.
Ultimately although I find life tiresome I do get pleasure from music (Mainly Punk) my bikes e.t.c I try to work in areas that I find rewarding and although the drudge hacks at me this is what shapes my identity and gives me something back.
I feel you need to look at the real Joel and what gets you 'fired up' and try and live a little to lift your spirits.
Answer this posting with what you like, what gets you interested, hobbies activities, dreams. I think it would be worthwhile loking at getting a piece of your dreams one small chunk at a time.
I think your relationship with your family would improve if you were no longer at home. There are sometimes live in voluntary jobs (maily care) or if you have skills i.e. sports sometimes there are summer camps e.t.c for kids.
I define myself as a biker, (old) punker, gardener, chef whatever and although I suffer from sad it is not me it's just something I have to deal with................
food for thought..................

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 12:26 29 July 2005

Siddy,

Thanks for your words. I have that book already, and the only thing that has helped from it has been increasing my protein consumption to alleviate the carbohydrate craving. Light therapy doesn’t seem to work for me. I suspect, that since my symptoms persist virtually all year round even when I have been working outdoors, that maybe I need even more intense light - which is why I’m trying to get more specialised SAD help.

I have done voluntary work (outdoors work for Hampshire Wildlife Trust) which I really enjoyed, but besides the fact that it provided no income, I could only really manage to do it from April until the end of August (when my symptoms are reduced sufficiently). I don’t know how to define myself, because everything I once enjoyed has been robbed from me, all I do is help people at my own expense just to get that little bit of satisfaction from a smile. I only diagnosed myself this year, and I am still trying to come to terms with the realisation that Joel hasn’t truly come into being yet – I caught a glimpse of him on the island of Corsica in 2000 (and I loved what I saw). Since I was 12 SAD has been brainwashing me and making all of my decisions for me. All of my issues relate to the symptoms of SAD.

You are right about formal education, but I don’t know how else to get into a position where I can use the intelligence that I was blessed with (wish I could actually use it unimpaired though). According to IQ tests I’m in the top percentile in the country, and everyone who has the misfortune to meet me thinks that I am very intelligent. Hell, I know I am. This is one of the most frustrating aspects of SAD for me – I’m asking for help from people that I am generally more intelligent than (superiority complex kicks in), and just getting patronisingly stonewalled in return. I always wanted to be a doctor for crying out aloud. My main problem comes from storing stuff in my short-term memory and getting things down on paper as quickly as colleges, and employers would like. Without a computer I’d be even more stuffed. Before SAD got a grip on me, I used to be able to handwrite 400 words per side of A4 paper, error free, every 30 mins. Now it takes me at least 2 hours to try and achieve the same result on a computer (and that is just a stream of whinge). Trying to write up scientific reports is virtually impossible – what should take an afternoon takes me weeks. Speech recognition software would be useful, but I have an overbite and lips that Mick Jagger would be jealous of (really helps with the anxiety thing too), which causes me to naturally mumble, thereby rendering the software useless. I am trying to get this problem resolved (to help with my anxiety over my physical appearance and over my difficulty to communicate effectively, and with the skin problems that I have with my lips) but I have to go private, and surprise, surprise I have no money.

If my family was rich then SAD wouldn’t be a problem at all - I would have gotten diagnosed quicker, emigrated to somewhere like Australia, and trained as a doctor there. Instead (cue violins) I have to keep wallowing in my own self pity making futile attempts each year to try and get some sort of consistent normality going in my life. The more I try to fight SAD the worse it fight back. And I’m never going to be in a financial, nor mental position to facilitate emigration without help – I’m pleading, but none is forthcoming.

I am truly glad that you have found a lifestyle to cope, Siddy. In addition, I wish you a long and happy future. As for me, if nothing changes soon then I can see no point in trying to keeps my existence going – I will be SAD and lonely forever. This prospect I cannot allow, and so suicide is still there on my list of realistic options for now. Preferentially, I would rather like to be able follow an option involving living, but those options require help, which isn’t forth coming presently.

Happy summer

Joel
Linda
Linda
joined 15 Dec 2004
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Posted by Linda, 13:45 29 July 2005

Joel,

I don't make any claims to be an expert on the subject of SAD/depression, and I know there are a lot of issues in your life that seem to be combining to make you feel full of despair. I just thought that it might possibly be of some help to share my own experience. Like you, I have had problems with SAD, but this year it turned into full-blown depression that was severe throughout the winter and got worse, not better, in the summer. Sometimes it's hard to know where one stops and the other begins, especially when light therapy and sunlight (e.g. in summer) can be helpful in treating both. As my doctor told me, when you get into real difficulties, it's probably best to look at it as straightforward depression, whaetever the cause, and treat it as such.
I understand your anguish about the lack of concentration, the feeling that you're living in a fog, that this just isn't who you are. Indeed that is what depression does to a person. It can be very hard to address issues in your life that need reflecting on, or changing, when you're in such a state. I know you've said that you've been down the road of trying antidepressants, but I would ask you how long you gave each to work, at what dosage, and how many you tried. There are many people who want to avoid medication at all costs, who feel it robs you of who "you" are, who think they can overcome the problem through willpower. I was one of those. But I simply got to a point where I felt I couldn't function and needed help. I'm on my fourth antidepressant and little by little I'm feeling better. I'm beginning to engage with life again, and to feel that I'm actually able to -- though these dreary grey days are making recovery slow. When you're prone to SAD, then overcast spells at any time of year can knock you back, as no doubt you're aware. I noted that you said you didn't do well with venlafaxine; I tried mirtazapine, which is in the same family, and was zombie-fied for two days after just one pill. It was a nightmare. But they say that there's an antidepressant out there for virtually everyone, if you're determined to find it, and are assertive with your doctor. A friend of mine says she tried nine before she found one that worked -- but then she felt great, and said it was worth the effort.
Of course no one would claim that an antidepressant solves the underlying problems causing or intensifying a depression, but it can help you reach a point where you feel you're able to start looking at them and addressing them. Therapy might be of more help to you if your mind clears and you are less full of self-blame and feelings of worthlessness and despair. The depression causes these and they perpetuate the depression, which can be a vicious circle that might seem impossible to break.
If it feels that your doctor is being less than helpful, can you see another? I've seen several different ones and sometimes getting another opinion can be useful. I saw one a few days ago who has referred me to a local out-patient psychiatric unit. He said I need support until my medication takes full effect, if not beyond. I wonder why it's taken ten months for this to happen, but I'm grateful.
I wish I could say more to help, and you might not agree with my suggestions, but I wanted to say that I know how soul-destroying depression is, and that it's worth fighting. It sounds to me as if you feel life is worth living if you can find a way to clear the clouds away, and I feel the same. This is an illness that can be treated. Dig your heels in and don't let it get the best of you.
Best wishes,
Linda.

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 20:55 29 July 2005

Linda,

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I’m trying not to sound too self centred, and trying not to imply that my situation is any worse than anyone else’s. If you knew me, you would know how caring I truly am; I feel deeply for anyone having difficulties, and I will help them to the best of my ability. By sharing my own experiences, I am trying to gain insight from those with similar problems and expose possible routes to help for others and myself along the way - so that we can all forget about that suicide option.

I do not profess to be an expert on the subject of SAD/ depression either, but I have formed very strong opinions about my own particular case. You must remember that I have had what I am still 100% sure is SAD for a total of 17 years without knowing what it was until the end of February this year. People could argue this year that because I think I have SAD, then my symptoms are purely psychosomatic. This is a groundless argument for all of those previous years. With the computer age, I have access to Met Office data, and I also have a paper trail of records from which I can see what I was doing at various times of each year. Although I never kept a diary, from my bank records, for instance, I can see at any particular time: what job I was doing (whether I was indoors or out), remember how I felt at the time, and why I quit that job eventually etc.

The information that I have at my disposal shows a definite correlation between my mood/ ability to function, and the monthly sunshine hours in my locality. Years that have been particularly bad for me have been when I have started full-time indoor work/education in the autumn. Funnily enough, I perceive my depression as a mere symptom/ result of SAD, but to many doctors SAD is purely a seasonal pattern ascribed to depression – they use the argument that everyone feels better when they can get outdoors during sunny weather. The reason that I have this view is that there have been times when I consider myself to have been free from depression, but I still exhibited all of the other usual SAD symptoms, including my constant fatigue, constant headache, anxiety and carbohydrate craving.

Trying to gain my BSc (Hons) in Environmental Protection (Conservation Management) represents three interesting years in terms of my SAD suffering, and follows the year I went to Corsica in 2000 (where I felt like a normal human being for the first time since the age of 12) . Each year I was relatively happy from the friends point of view, because I had made loads of new friends and was socialising as much as possible especially during the spring ( honestly my social life had never been so good, and I had made the decision not to stress about trying to get a girlfriend until I finished my degree). It is with reference to my academic performance that SAD took its toll. During lectures, I was tired, but I was flaunting my intelligence for all to see, and helping to explain things to others. Virtually from the start of each academic year, I could discuss things, but getting written work done was like having writers block - it just couldn’t physically happen.

During the first year of my degree, I went to see the college counsellor and my GP (he put me on fluoxetine) about my coursework woes. Nothing changed, so I came off the pills after a few months, and gave up on the counselling. All of this time I was still what I would call happy, it was just the frustration of not understanding why I couldn’t get the course work done that was beginning to get to me. Then after Easter that year a miracle occurred, and the coursework block disappeared, I rattled through a years worth of coursework in a week, and got ‘A’ grades for all of my summer assignments (to give me a predicted first class degree). I still felt tired and everything wasn’t as great as it had been in Corsica the year before, but I still felt very optimistic about my future, During the Summer I carried on with my volunteering for Hampshire Wildlife Trust and did loads of reading for the second year of my degree.

When I started year two my lecturers were most impressed with the knowledge that I had gained over the summer from my voluntary work and reading. However, suddenly reading and writing became impossible and the coursework backed up again – another useless visit to my GP entailed. After Easter that year I went on a work placement with my friends at Hampshire Wildlife Trust – they too had become impressed with my intelligence and put me in charge of their survey and monitoring work. Just like it did the previous year my ability to do coursework returned. Fatefully whilst cycling to Reading I was maimed by a taxi diver, and spent loads of time indoors with achilles tendon damage – my reading and writing ability faded away again even though I had more free time to dedicate to it. I missed the critical deadline but was allowed to repeat the year in light of my special circumstances (he fact that my GP had diagnosed depression).

After my Achilles tendon healed in the summer, I got outdoor socialising and volunteering again. Yep, my reading and writing ability returned and I started writing up all of my monitoring work for the wildlife trust. Just as I returned to uni they asked me to produce a report for English nature – this would never get finished. The start of this repeat of the second year in 2003 followed the pattern of the previous two. This time as we broke for revision just before Easter I had another cycling accident and produced a custom shoulder – I’ve had my resultant trouble with that shoulder finally fixed this year (Yay to the NHS for something!). I was due to return to the Wildlife Trust for another work placement and they were on my back for the report still. I stalled them and the college with lies whilst I was recovering. By the time I could get mobile again, uni had finished but I thought that I had a deadline in July. I went on holiday in June with an auth to the Lake District I took my laptop to try to work on my coursework. By the time the fortnight was over my abilities in the reading and writing department had significantly returned. When I got back home I was all set to rattle through my coursework again, but there was a letter waiting for me telling me that I had been kicked off the course.

Now is that all just a coincidence: when it is overcast times of the year, or when I spend a lot of time indoors, my cognitive skills are less than desirable; but when it is sunny and I spend much time outdoors my cognitive skills miraculously return. Like I say, I never felt A1 as I did in Corsica, but I don’t consider myself to have been suffering from depression as such during those years. The dramatic difference in my academic performance, I now attribute to my exposure to sunlight. What do you think?

This year I think that I definitely have clinical depression and extreme stress on top of my SAD; but purely because I think my SAD can be overcome by either stronger light therapy, or by emigrating, but no one is helping me. They want to treat just one symptom, and not the SAD itself.

My SAD depression exhibits itself when I am under stress – usually when I’m working in high stress menial jobs where I have no control. It is not generally a problem during the summer and tends to peak in January or February depending on available sunlight. I enjoyed my degree course and wasn’t stressed apart from my frustration with the coursework, hence, I don’t consider depression to be much of an SAD symptom in my degree years.

So there you have my food for thought for you; a kind of a chicken and egg situation. Is SAD a way depression exhibits itself, or is it a separate entity entirely which has depression as a more extreme symptom?

Sorry if I have lost the plot with this post, but I have been writing it over several hours. I’ll think I’ll better stop now. Anyhow, I hope that you will be victorious over your SAD/ depression Linda, and the same goes for anyone who reads this post. Your thoughts on any of the issues raised would be appreciated. Oh and before I forget, I have tried somewhere in the region of 20 antidepressants up to their recommended maximum doses, since I left school; they all either did nothing but make me feel even more tired, gave me gastric trouble, or in the case of venlafaxine increased my suicidal tendencies.

Take care

Love Joel xXx
Linda
Linda
joined 15 Dec 2004
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Posted by Linda, 06:40 30 July 2005

It's an interesting idea you mentioned, that SAD could be the manifestation of latent depression, brought out by the lack of light. I wonder if that was the case with me this last year. I've had varying degrees of success in using light therapy to treat my problem. When I was able to soak up hours of pure summer sun, during the spells it showed itself, I could function fairly well. Also, at the beginning of the depression, I got to a point where the light therapy helped a lot, until January came and I was still experimenting with timing, brightness, and length of exposure. Somehow the SAD/depression really decided to rear its ugly head, and I was swamped in its depths until April, when the sun started coming back a little. I know the light therapy was working again because I use it in the evening to re-set my knackered body clock, which otherwise makes me tired in the evening and wakes me up for the day at 3 a.m.
I think I remember you saying you've tried light therapy yourself. I don't know when you did, or how far you went with it. Certainly there seems to be a case for starting it in the autumn as soon as your first symptoms occur -- and even a week or two sooner, if you know from experience when that's likely to be. Also, it's maybe worth looking into what the best time of day may be for you to get the optimum bebefit. For most it is when you first wake up, but for me it is actually late in the evening. It depends on how the SAD has affected your body clock. A useful site I have found, with a circadian rhythm test that helped me a lot, was www.apollohealth.com
I'm sad that the antidepressants haven't been a help to you. I don't know what I'd do without them myself at the moment. But light therapy has also been a big help and that's maybe something you can look into. I've never found the artificial light as therapeutic as natural sunlight, but you can use both to your benefit even in winter. There are a lot of past posts on the subject in this forum that you might like to look at, as regards the subject.
Again best wishes,
Linda.

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 09:36 30 July 2005

Linda

It is funny you should mention Apollo Heath because I have two of their light boxes (their Sun Touch Plus thingy, and their Golite P1). I can feel a tingly sensation in my brain when I am using either of them, especially the Golite; but I feel no better for it, no matter when I take the treatment, how long the treatment time, nor how close I get to the light. I’ve only been trying light therapy since I diagnosed myself this year. One reason I thought it might not be working was that I started using it when my symptoms were full-blown, and it is referred to as a preventative measure rather than a cure – I will persevere with it in any case to see if it makes a difference in the Autumn.

This morning I remembered a diagram from ‘Winter Blues’ by Norman E Rosenthal, which summarises the pattern of my SAD symptoms quite well. If you have access to the book, I am referring to figure 9, Page 207. The figure shows how a succession of symptoms gradually lowers you down to the deepest one, depression, in the depths of winter before the process reverses – kind of going down steps in the autumn, reaching the basement in winter, and then beginning the climb back up the steps to the normality of summer in spring. Each step is a separate symptom, and it shows how there are definite layers to SAD suffering. Unfortunately, I never make it to the top in this country, but then luckily I don’t reach the very bottom very often either; as I said before it is only when lack of sunlight and high stress combine, that I reach rock bottom.

I agree with Dr Rosenthal in his model of SAD, due to my own experiences. However, from the few psychiatrists and doctors that I have spoken to in the UK, I get the impression that they have been taught that SAD is just a manifestation of clinical depression that can be helped by light therapy. In my own, all be it SAD mind, I think that SAD is just plain and simply a condition resulting from lack of exposure to sunlight, and that the depression directly linked to it is merely the ultimate symptom of the condition. Nothing of course is usually black and white, and I am sure that there are people with clinical depression that experience seasonal patterns to their depression; just as there are SAD sufferers that experience clinical depression as a result of the frustration that their SAD symptoms cause (me at the moment for instance). I wish that there was more separation of the conditions in the UK, then maybe I could get more direct help for my SAD, rather than being fobbed off with treatments for depression all of the time.

Linda, I actually checked out your profile, and I read that you are a teacher. Well done for achieving what you have despite your problems; I always wanted to be a doctor first, or then a teacher second if the first one didn’t work out. Sadly (no pun intended) I have been prevented from reaching either of these careers due to SAD. Even my billionth alternative career of stacking shelves for Waitrose wouldn’t work out. What do you teach, out of interest?

Anyhow, I’m off to visit my sister and nieces for the day, so it’s time to start smiling.

Love Joel xXx
Linda
Linda
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Posted by Linda, 17:35 30 July 2005

:) I'm trained in secondary English and taught it for five years. Have been at home raising my little girl for a while, which is good as I couldn't have held down a job this past year while the depression's been bad.
I wish I could share with you a secret of coping but I haven't found one. The SAD was never nearly as bad as it was this year. The worst it did to me was to cause me to take two weeks off for stress one November. Being tired all the time, craving sweets, feeling low, etc. -- it was all so normal for me that I never realised anything was wrong, and it took a long time for my "seasonality" to dawn on me. But when I had a big fall last September from feeling fit and healthy to feeling "fluey," wanting to eat bread all the time, and waking every morning at 3 a.m., it was obvious that something was wrong, and I began researching SAD.
For a long time I believed that SAD and depression were separate entities. I followed the typical pattern you yourself described, with mild physical symptoms at first, gradually getting worse. The irritability and low mood didn't set in until the end of January. But depression isn't simply characterised by low mood. Chemical imbalances like low levels of serotonin cause the physical symptoms as well, like sweet/carb cravings, and anxiety. It's a shame that the antidepressants haven't worked for you, as it seems to me that addressing the low neurotransmitter levels is a helpful first step in dealing with depression, or SAD. I understand that there are other things you can try, like modifying your diet, exercising, and using herbal remedies like 5-HTP, though these aren't always proven effective. 5-HTP didn't work for me but some people swear by it.
In the short term, is it possible for you to go on one of those last-minute budget flights to someplace sunny like Ibiza? Soak up some sun, let your mind clear, and then have a good hard think about what your options are and what you want to do?
Wish I had more advice for you. If you feel your light therapy isn't working for you, maybe you could share what you're doing and when, and people on this forum could perhaps advise you. I at first tried my light in the morning and was confused and upset when it only made me worse. For some people timing can be crucial. Also, as you said, it's much more effective when begun in the autumn when your symptoms begin. No amount of light helped me in the middle of last winter and the depression took complete control no matter what I did. But it took me a long time to find a light therapy routine that worked for me, and by then it was too late. I would add that if I hadn't been so determined to believe that SAD and depression were separate entities, and if I'd started looking at antidepressants a lot sooner, I probably would have been feeling better and working on getting my life back on track months ago.
Hang in there and don't despair; you'll find your way :)

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 01:21 31 July 2005

English…hmmm. You’ll have to excuse my grammar and punctuation, because I usually have to relearn those areas of English each year; and this year I haven’t gotten round to it yet for obvious reasons. But hey, managing to become an English teacher - I don't even know you, and yet I'm so proud of you.

I have been taking 5-HTP, omega oils, and vitamin and mineral supplements for the past couple of months. Additionally I have been avoiding caffeine, and alcohol. Now do I feel any better? Alas, no; but again I am persevering to just to see if something will happen over time. Exercise does provide temporary relief, but it is quite a hard slog battling the fatigue all of the time. The short-lived endorphin high is worth the effort though. I have just taken up cycling again, which I had given up a couple of years ago -due to a number of near death experiences, and the fact that I thought the daily exertion could have been a reason behind my poor academic performance.

Before I saw the psychiatrist I tried 1 hour of light therapy first thing in the morning, then I extended it to 2 hours, and then I tried adding an additional hour in the evening. I did pick up a little bit, but I think this was due to being removed from my biggest source of stress – Waitrose. My GP thought the improvement was due to the 75 mg of venlafaxine that he had prescribed for depression. After seeing the psychiatrist, my venlafaxine dose doubled and I was told to get at least 10 hours of light therapy per day. Following, these instruction, I ended up slitting my wrist. When my GP saw the state I was in, he increased the venlafaxine dose to the maximum. Despair and thoughts of suicide, were taking over, what few friend I have were getting scared about my safety. Fortunately, I had one of my revelations in the shower; I remembered the stories about Prozac and increases in suicidal tendencies. A quick hunt for ‘venlafaxine suicide’ using Google, produced results which by then I was fully expecting to find. Sure enough, there was a strong link particularly with venlafaxine and suicidal tendencies in adolescents. Since coming off of the venlafaxine, the light therapy alone does not seem to be doing much other than making my brain feel tingly, and seemingly taking the edge off of my constant headache.

Holiday wise, I have no money, and my passport runs out soon too. Besides, I have no one to go with, and the thought of going anywhere strange alone terrifies me at this moment in time. If I can sort something out with a friend and get my passport renewed it would probably be a useful thing if it would mean that I could get some time to truly think clearly.

Returning to the SAD/depression separate entity debate; how sure are you that SAD is not a separate entity? I know you’re not an expert, neither am I, but I do appreciate an honest opinion, and I will never dismiss anyone else’s opinion completely – I have been known to be wrong on occasions too. Is it your own opinion, or is it simply what the doctors have told you? I‘m still certain in my mind that SAD is a separate entity, although other conditions can blur it, and major clinical depression may result from it -I’m probably heading down that road this year. In my opinion doctors in this country are reluctant to accept that SAD does exist as a condition in its own right – the world is flat posse of our times :wink: .

I’m still impressed with what the SAD suffers who post in this forum have achieved in life. I sit here and think to myself: next year I’m 30; I was one of the brightest kids at school, and what have I achieved? The answer is SAD for me – I really do feel like the archetypal loser :cry: . Most of you have what I call worthwhile jobs: your teachers, or nurses. On top of that, you have formed relationships, and have started families. How have you achieved all of that? It is all still a distant dream to me, and seems impossible to reach. Oh dear I’ve started drifting down the road of despair again – must be time to conduct that pointless exercise of going to sleep. One last question: how old do you think you were when your SAD symptoms first appeared?

Oh, and despite being quite a bad SAD day, my nieces brought sincere smiles to my face – just as they always manage to do. Now there’s a cheerful note to finish the post on :D .

Good morning, God bless and all the best for a happy future.
sebrown
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Posted by sebrown, 14:39 31 July 2005

Hi Joel
have just read your posts and it touched a chord in me.
I haven't been here for a while as I have been trying to sort my life out.
I too have an IQ in the top percentile of the country.
Light therapy does not work for me and antidepressants make me even more suicidal.
I attempted suicide 4 times last winter and on the final attempt I ended up unconcious in hospital on a drip for a few days and then got shipped to a mental hospital.
I used to be a senior systems analyst programmer and was very good at my job but I know that I could not do that now.
The only time I have felt truely happy and confident was when I went to lanzarote for 2 weeks. It was the beginning of the second week before I felt so amazing. The heat and constant sunshine were exquisit.

This year I have divorced my husband and am moving out of our home on Friday to start my new life with my 2 lovely boys in a much smaller house but hopefully a happier one.
I took up cycling this summer and have found it a big help. It makes me feel really good when I push myself as hard as I can and I get a big thrill going as fast as I can down the hills.
Fortunately for me I don't have to work as we live off my exhusbands generous maintenance payments.
I am going to finally bring my passion of motorbikes to life. I am going on a refresher course on Tuesday (have not ridden for 15 years) and then I am getting a Suzuki GS500. I can't wait.
I have been feeling anxious lately and suicidal thoughts are always on my mind but I have been filling my life with things I want to do and this has been keeping my demons at bay (except at night).
I am dreading another winter as I am sure my friends are too (they picked up the pieces last time and have been keeping a close eye on me).
Sorry to ramble on, I guess I am trying to say find something you feel really passionate about and fill your waking moments with it.

You mention your inteligence a lot and I guess it really gets you down that you can't use it. I have had to come to terms with this too. You have to let it go and not let the bitterness over it and the sad rule your life.
I listen to loud heavy rock, push myself hard on my bike, drive my car too fast, exercise every night and dream about my motorbike.
These things keep me going and stop me drowning in my own self pity(this would be very easy for me to do).
I got off the antid's about 2 months ago. It was really scary for a while cos my brain went crazy after being on them for 3 years but I am definately less suicidal without them.
Find something that's good for you Joel, something to take your mind off the bad stuff.
I'll stop rambling now.
Sian
siddy
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Posted by siddy, 17:02 31 July 2005

Hi Sian,
good to see you have kept up the cycling as I do find I need the buzz of exercise and speed :twisted: to keep me going as well. Hey and take it easy on the motorbike. Don't listen to 'freeway mad' 8) by Saxon prior to any runs on the bike
Hope the little house and change of circumstance is working out and your boys managing.
Kawasaki obviously rule though.................. :wink:
sebrown
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Posted by sebrown, 19:04 31 July 2005

well they only came 6th today siddy :wink:

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 19:54 31 July 2005

Hi Sian

First, I need to tell Siddy that I am very impressed by just how shiny that Kawasaki is: Does that chrome reflect all available sunlight into you eyes, whilst you’re riding that wee beastie? :wink:

I’m sorry to hear that things have been lass than brilliant for you too Sian, and I hope that things will work out for you as much as possible from now on. Like you, I generally bury myself in exercise, and listening to music. In my youth, I became a metal head at the same time that my SAD started appearing, because I found out that the sound of those very loud heavily distorted electric guitars neutralised my constant headache as long as they are playing – I grew up with the likes of Anthrax, Entombed, Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer, and Sepultura. However, my eardrums have paid the price for a little headache relief. During my teens, I did start learning to plat the Guitar, but SAD put an end to that as well. :roll:

When I was 17, I bought a mountain bike and started cycling everywhere. Later on I got a second hand racer too. By my early twenties, I could have been up to the standard of Lance Armstrong, but I was never rich enough and had all the SAD crap, especially the anxiety, stopping me from joining clubs. The irony of the SAD situation is that although I never feel fit, I am in reality extremely fit, but I just have to motivate myself to keep going through the fatigue and tiredness.

Following my grandparents advice I tried to join the army to ‘make a man of me’, but after looking at my work history the army suggested that I try the TA first. In April 1997, I joined the TA for 3 years. You can probably guess what my attendance was like – not bad from April till the end of August, but then it petered out in September to be a no show until the following April. Whilst in the TA I started running and found that I was damn fast, and after my first session on the ranges, I found that I had another useful talent – I could shoot thing a bloody long way away (That skill has been of great help to me…not!). Anyhow, while my SAD symptoms were at their least I enjoyed all of the running around carrying ridiculous amounts of weight, and charging down the ranges guns blazing. With the shooting team I gained loads of respect and brought a whole load of silver wear to my unit for their first time. Unfortunately, it could never have worked out in the TA, let alone the regular army, while I had SAD, and besides I could never bring myself to kill anyone other than myself. Since the TA I have been an exercise junkie (God bless endorphins), and have kept my weight down despite all of that SAD carbohydrate binging. Occasionally, when the SAD symptoms are at their worst, I loose the motivation to exercise, but I usually regain it within a month.

Accepting that I cannot use my intelligence is very hard – I think I would rather die. My main problem is my loneliness; I have lost touch with loads of my friends in order to spare them my whinging. I wonder whether they were my friends, since they haven’t even tried to contact me – me thinks they were just picking my brains until they had gotten their degrees, or I had taught them a skill that they needed etc. God I hate being this cynical, and bitter. I have one true friend left, but he lives 60 miles away now. To be honest I’m getting of pissed off with all of the advice that I get from friends and family. Trying to open up and explain how I’m feeling, and how SAD affects me is a waste of my breath. They say: ‘you just need to pull yourself together’, or ‘you just need to find something that you are able to do’. What the f@#$ do they think I have been doing until now; they just don’t get it – without a treatment that works or emigrating I cannot do anything. It is a struggle just to look after myself, and I cannot even hold down a cleaning or stacking shelves job. The thought of carrying on alone scares the crap out of me too. I have no magic pot of money to draw on to help me, because I have never been able to work properly as an adult. Hell, it’s all my bloody parents fault for being poor – why haven’t they got a villa in the canaries, or why can’t they pay for me to train as a doctor in Australia? Damn you parents! :evil:

Sorry I keep going off on one. Good luck with your move, and everything else Sian.

Love Joel xXx
siddy
joined 22 Jan 2003
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Posted by siddy, 08:15 1 August 2005

Hello Joel,
I think what comes through most out of all of this is the 'I could have beens' and your relationship with your parents.
If you take one example i.e Lance Armstong although he had a very supportive mother he never really knew his father and there wasn't a lot of money around for him in his youth. Armstrong did it all with grit and enthusiasm. By the way there will never by another cyclist to the standard of Armstrong. The bottom line for me is I could have been a good amateur cyclist but with a bad knee and hip this has stopped me training as I had wished. On my bad days this is very depressing for me as it is one of my main interests but when I do overdo it I have to stop cycling for a while to let the pain subside which doesn't help my moods.
My solution to this probem is not to 'race' when I ride and since I have imposed a 70 miles a week limit my leg has been a lot better. I still ride and get the benefit of exercise.
If all our parents were stinking rich there probably wouldn't be any of us on the forum but that is how life is we have to work for everything either mentally or physically.
I think your friends will tell you to pull yourself together because although their lives might seem easy compared to yours they also have their challenges and troubles to deal with.
The bottom line in this world is we are on our own and we shape our own destiny. I do think that you need to get up on your own feet somehow and you need to look at how you will do that and not find excuses.
One of the values of being intelligent is that sometimes you can intellectualize your feelings, so try and be more analytical about the way you view your emotions and responses to emotions. I.e I am responding a certain way to situations and try to recognise this and accept the response. I certainly think the issues with your parents need resolving and that you need to find someway of getting out so that you can view them in a different way.
Onward and upward!

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 09:46 1 August 2005

Hello Siddy

You’re definitely wise, but nevertheless I think you’re picking up on my inability to articulate myself. Life away from my parents would definitely be less stressful, since they are both retired and are constantly watching over me – I think my father suffers from long-term depression, but it has never been clinically diagnosed. The comment about my parents wealth, was merely a joke that highlights one of the problems I have with human society – I cannot believe we allow people to starve to death for lack of money, while others are wasting vast sums on complete crap just to prove that they are richer than the next person. Given the choice, I would rather work for charity if I didn’t have to keep worrying about putting food on the table, clothes on my back, and a roof over my head etc. Money has gone from a way of trading fairly, in the absence of tradable goods, to the ultimate tool of greed and evil. My father is obsessed with money too, so that is another reason I introduced the topic in a tongue-in-cheek way. :wink:

The Lance Armstrong thing was a bit of a joke as well, but I really do try to take inspiration from those less fortunate than myself, or that have had to overcome adversity to achieve what they have. The cycling bit was trying to illustrate that I have been fighting all my life and that I’ve never given up readily – I only give up when the worst of the SAD kicks in. I cannot carry on when I feel physically sick at the thought of stepping outdoors, and my head hurts so bad that it feels like it is going to explode – that is what drives me towards suicide usually, because I just want the pain to stop. Every year I pulled myself up and pushed harder only to end up in a worse state the harder I push – I assume the SAD feeds off the stress, caused by the pressure that I put upon myself. This is why I am considering suicide for the first time other than when my SAD has been at its worst. It feels like I’ve tried everything, and I cannot face going through another year of failure. The only way to have a bearable autumn and winter is to do nothing, but I don’t want to do nothing and I want to live, not just exist. :cry:

Of course all my friends lives haven’t been easy. SAD or not, I’ve done my best to put on my normal mask and help them through their difficulties, whilst inside I have been a complete wreck myself. I know I do sound selfish, but I swear to you that have always put others first when it comes down to the wire. The only coursework that I finished during my second year of my degree was the group work, because I didn’t want to let the others down. It nearly killed me, but I did it for them and ruined any chance I had of getting my individual work in on time. Family, friends, and work colleagues all call on me when they need help, and even though I am probably being exploited, I go and help them to get that self-satisfaction of being useful – I suppose that is selfish in a roundabout way. :?

I am sorry if you take offence to anything that I have written, but chances are that it has come out wrong anyway - I don’t mean to offend anyone. Anyhow, I don't know why I'm trying to defend myself from a normal stand point, because you have to realise that I have reached adulthood moulded by the symptoms of SAD; I have never experienced having a girlfriend, or steady job - they are still dreams for me. Most of you sound like you developed SAD later in life and have experienced some years of normal adulthood; So please be gentle with me in future, because I have never had that (dare I say it) luxury.

I’m sorry to hear about your knee Siddy. I’ve had Achilles trouble and complications from a broken collar bone in the past. Fortunately, I am now trouble free thanks to the NHS, and I only have my nemesis, SAD, to contend with. Keep biking and smiling. :D

Joel
siddy
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Posted by siddy, 08:22 2 August 2005

Joel,
First of all Joel I have had sad as long as I can remember. I remember going out with my parents probably at the age of about 10 feeling like the world was about to end on a very dark winter day. At thirteen I remember listening to grey day by Madness and relating to it and in retrospect has affected my scoolwork all through my life.

I think what is annoying from my perspective is that at this forum people are here to listen to each other and offer advice experiences about what helps them to deal with sad. I think Joel that regardless of what people on this form might tell you, you are unlikely to try their advice. I think ultimately you are looking for a magic cure or are looking for attention but within your post what comes through is dismissiveness on your part to peoples suggestions and and overwhelming feeling that yours is worse.
I do not take offence, I don't know you and I recogise I am blunt but take some responsibility for what you write. At least one of the people who has answered your post has tried to commit suicide (not including myself) so respect the fact that although we can't completely relate to you, people have been there and are still currently living it.

I think this is why I stressed to you in your first posting is to accept that suicide isn't for you and to put that idea to bed and although it seems tempting it is a must if you want to move on with your life.

Do you have a regime to manage your sad one that is written in stone that you abide by to reduce the symptoms ?

Joel don't answer this in haste but consider what I have written........

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 21:23 2 August 2005

Thank you for taking the time to post again Siddy. This is the third time someone else has helped me to open my eyes to things that I have been blind to. The first time was the inspiration to spot my irrationality, proving that something other than my personality was to blame for my problems - SAD. The second was to spot that I was deteriorating – enabling me to realise that I was reacting badly to venlafaxine. Before I tell you how you have helped me, I will just reply to the points that you raise in your post.

Firstly, I will try to follow any advice that I haven’t already tried. All of the years that I have been suffering from SAD, I have been told by medical experts that I have been suffering from depression. Therefore, I have been trying all of the self-help techniques for dealing with depression, and trying different medications. The advice that I am receiving is no different to anything that I have already tried. Depression is just one symptom of SAD, and no amount of exercise or anything else designed to relieve depression has any impact on my headache, or level of concentration; but it does of course lift my mood. Light therapy is the only treatment that has been new to me, but it doesn’t appear to work in my case. Nevertheless, I am hoping that I will be able to try a more powerful/dangerous device since my symptoms do seem to persist, indicating that I may possibly require even more intense light than the average SAD sufferer. I have followed all of the standard light therapy variations in our main sources of published advice, but to no avail. I will persevere with light therapy in the autumn just to see if it works after my symptoms have reached their minimum severity – besides I have to remember that venlafaxine was adversely affecting me through my initial trials of light therapy, and that my symptoms were at their worst.

Do I think I have the world record on SAD severity? No, but I have to admit that I think that I have a rougher deal than a lot of you. My constant headache is something that no one else seems to suffer, and that is one reason that I cannot take full responsibility for what I write. I do my best to read other peoples posts thoroughly, to proof read my own, and to try to think clearly about exactly what I am writing; but the way my concentration is shot, and the constant pain in my head makes it all just a little bit tricky. I have given up reading fiction, because I can only retain the previous few sentences – I have no way to follow the plot forgetting who is who and who did what where etc. I managed to get through ‘Winter Blues’ within a fortnight because I was desperate to try to be able to help myself. Without the proofing tools in MS Word my posts would be a complete mess - at best one of this length takes me a couple of hours to finish.

I really do wish that I could put the idea of suicide to bed, but this comes to the crux of how you have helped me. The overwhelming message that I remember from ‘Winter Blue’ was that SAD is a treatable condition - well I am still waiting for treatment. Yes, I am seeking attention, and I do want a magic cure; I believe that is what is generally referred to as ‘a cry for help’. Thanks for making it obvious Siddy, I owe you one (I am not being sarcastic by the way). I cannot cope, and I think that I may be heading for a breakdown. Tomorrow, I will crawl back down to my GP, and do whatever it takes to get the help that I need once and for all. Thanks again for just being you Siddy.

Sorry all for exposing you to my desperate selfish baggage – I seem to be apologising a lot lately. Good luck with all of your personal SAD battles, and with any other problems that you have. Alas, I am too weak to show my words around here.

TTFN

Joel
Linda
Linda
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Posted by Linda, 21:36 2 August 2005

I'm really pleased to hear that you're going to see your GP, Joel. I wouldn't know what else to suggest to you. If I were in your position I'm sure I would do the same -- tell your doctor exactly how awful you're feeling physically, and how full of despair you are. Insist on help; insist on seeing a specialist. Hopefully he/she will be reasonable enough to listen to what you've been through and suggest something helpful. I'd be interested to hear what happens, as I feel for you and Sian and others who have tried meds and light therapy with no success. They do work for me to an extent but I don't find them a cure-all. Don't you feel jealous of those severely depressed people in Winter Blues who try light therapy for the first time and whack, the nastiness is gone and spring is in bloom. Lucky! I'll never forget how upset I was when it didn't work for me at first. But I'll say again, as you seem to be aware, that this is often the case when you try light therapy when the depression is already severe. Like you, I am waiting to "come out of it" so that I can give it a proper go in autumn when I am symptom-free. That's going to be next year I think.
Anyway, I think you've got the right attitude towards this and I'm pleased to hear that you're still keen to insist on help. You will get it and work your way out of this, even though it will take time -- I feel sure.
Best wishes,
Linda.
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Posted by siddy, 08:16 3 August 2005

Hello Joel,
I think firstly I do hope you can find some relief particularly from the headaches. Do you think the headache could be contributed to stress and frustration? Are you still using the light box for ten hours as you mentioned in one of your postings. Have you had a bran scan to check for tumors?

In my experience battling sad is just that and generally it requires an arsenal of weapons and techniques as focusing on one thing I believe isn't enough to get through.

Light therapy for me is about staying awake in the day although most of the time I want to be horizontal even after using it on dark days. It is a 'pick up' but for me doesn't do everything and is certainly not a cure. I also have dawn simulator on each morning as well.
Meds are useful in the darkest times although don't 'cure it' but i.e. prozac takes the edge of it.
Regular exercise is important otherwise if I try to ignore it I go to pot as well.
Reducing my stress, i.e. not doing anything which isn't essential can also mess me up at the worst times. This also comes along with lowering my expectations of what I can achieve.
Eating properly and not binging are essential although almost impossible, prozac helps with that.
Planning i.e. Christmas shopping in August (that reminds me!) otherwise come December I am a mess and t desn't happen.
Doing a diary of how I was was one of the best things I did as the next year I felt reassured that It wasn't me and I knew (for example) the panic attacks were just that.

Ultimately even after all of this I can still feel crap but that is the luck of the draw and if I lok at how some people are placed on this planet I really can't complain too much.

I can't remember if this is complete but it is an idea of how I manage and it is basically to suggest that you try a combined regime in the future if the doctor doesn't provide any solutions.

good luck

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 11:10 5 August 2005

Hi All

How are you all doing? I'm still here; hanging in there, but deteriorating: slowing down even more, concentration level worsening, and with violent mood swings over very trivial things. For an example of the later: my bike got a puncture, so instead of repairing it calmly, I picked it up in my right hand and threw it as hard as I could at the ground (suspension seat post = very springy), and it bounced a good 2 metres in the air. My thoughts of suicide seem to be being replaced with rage, and I've had to stop driving for the safety of others.

Doctors = mixed bag. The one I saw on Wednesday was very hostile and seemed to blame me not getting help elsewhere. However, I did find out that an SAD clinic in Southampton is still open (GP and psychiatrist lied to me about there being no SAD clinics anymore). The nice, helpful GP that I saw for the second time today is referring me to the clinic, with the blessing of my psychiatrist (who had apparently accepted defeat in dealing with whatever she thinks that I suffer from). Unfortunately, it is down to the NHS accountants whether I will actually get seen at the SAD clinic.

Thanks for the details of your regime Siddy, I had already implemented most of it, as best I could from the advice in 'Winter Blues' - I haven't yet tried avoiding high stress things during the winter, because I have only diagnosed myself this year. In my current state I really can't see myself fighting each year like you seem to be able to though. *takes hat off to you and other SAD survivors*

I haven't had a brain scan, but a brain tumour would be accompanied by a very rapid deterioration with many other obvious symptoms. I've had my headache for 17 years and its severity oscillates with the severity of my other SAD symptoms (it disappeared in Corsica, 2000, with all of those other SAD symptoms, and returned shortly after returning to the UK).

*Prays for sunny summer to arrive and stay for us all* Apart from those lucky ones that Linda refers to, who get instant results with their light boxes; those lucky b******s can all stay indoors with their light boxes forever.

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 16:22 13 October 2005

Just an update on my own original whinge thread.

My psychiatrist is actually referring me to the Southampton SAD clinic again, and suggested that it was only my GP that referred me originally without her support. He said that she pulled the plug on the first referral. Someone is telling porkies again.

Since I am deriorating rapidly, I wanted to try bupropion, but my shrink refuses to give it me for depression. She won't accept that I want to quit smoking, just because I don't smoke. Following her advice, I am trying 100 mg of sertraline instead. I now have difficulty sleeping, garo-intestinal problems, difficulting urinating, and a slight difficulty coordinating movement.

The day after starting the sertraline, my Pharos-Max arrived from Outside In. Using it early in the morning has been tricky due to the insomia caused by the medication - I haven't slept properly, until after I should have been getting up. I have used the light box for the past 2 days and with a combination of that and the SSRI, I am walking about feeling slightly pissed. Unfortunately, I still have all of my other SAD symptoms, including my headache. The sensation is the same slightly tingly brain one that I used to get for a matter of minutes after treatment with my old SAD lamp or the GoLite.

Is this a all a good omen I wonder. At least the nausea from the pills seems to have disappeared today.

In other news, I put in a clainm for incapacity benefit last Thursday. Additionally, a job broker from Royal British Legion Industries is supposed to be helping me find work.

Keep fighting back people.

Joel xXx
cazjenson
joined 17 Dec 2004
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Posted by cazjenson, 17:16 13 October 2005

Hi joel,
Sorry to hear your feeling so rough, With reference to your headaches, have you had your eyes tested. I'm shorted sighted, if my eyes deterioate and I need a new prescription I will get blinding headaches til I get it sorted. Just a thought.
Take care
Cazjenson

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 17:44 13 October 2005

Thanks for the info Cazjenson.

I've had my headache for nearly two decades and it has disappeared once during the complete remission of my other SAD symptoms. The last time I had an eye test was after I scratched my left cornea on some dried out bracken, in 1997. I managed to gouge the mark of Zorro into it during a night exercise on my final phase one TA training weekend. I don't think I have a sight problem, but it would be worth eliminating it as a contributory factor.

Thanks again, and look after yourself too.

Joel xXx
Julie in Sussex
joined 21 Jan 2003
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Posted by Julie in Sussex, 21:18 13 October 2005

Well, Joel the only thing to do is hang on in there honestly, if you possibly can.

Unfortunately GP's don't seem to tell the whole truth about side effects to meds, probably having no first hand experience themselves. They say the side effects disappear in about a week, well, humph, no they don't! For the lucky few I suppose it might be fact, but for everyone else it can take from 1-7 weeks. I lived through 6 weeks of hell when I began Prozac on 10 August. Absolutely every symptom of my SAD became even more exaggerated, I felt heavily drugged and 'away with the fairies', nausea, endless headaches/migraines, and falling asleep during the day with regular monotony. I was told to take Prozac first thing in the morning as it can cause insomnia, which it did, though on taking the tablets first thing I promptly wanted to go to sleep. Now I take it in the evening and generally sleep rather well!

Thing is, 7 weeks down the line I did start to feel better, though I honestly never thought I would. It's a hard thing to say 'hang on in there' as I appreciate every day is an eternity. It is so cruel, so harsh as one feels so desperate in the first instance, drugs can make everything worse in the short term, it becomes impossible to even imagine feeling better, but it does come and at the other end it finally does seem worth the anguish and the interminable wait.

Have courage anyone else in this position, including Linda (I worry, you are rather quiet....) and, if it is humanly possible, do try to have the strength to last at least 8 weeks before making any changes. On other meds in years gone by I have given up in despair at about a month, now I wonder, if I had just managed to hold on ....?
OLD BLUE EYES
joined 11 Oct 2005
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Posted by OLD BLUE EYES, 21:21 13 October 2005

Hi Joel. Its uncanny how much i can relate to what you've said. I too have only diagnosed myself this year. I used to do drugs a few years back and so atributed all my problems to their aftermath. I've probably suffered this crap since early teens but with the drugs, the meds and the broken brain it's hard to put the pieces together. Im fortunate enough to be employed, which if nothing else affords me a place to hide away from the rest of humanity. Ive completely isolated myself fom the "normal" way of life because its so overwhelming. In the summer im still not 100% but i can hold a conversation and even make people laugh which is hugely rewarding. Ive just taken the rest of the week off work following an embarrasing start where i broke down crying in front of my boss following an innocent comment - "For Gods sake smile, it might never happen!" I didn't go home that day but the rest of the week got progressively worse possibly because the temporary Doctor wouldn't prescribe me ADS because "the government advised otherwise", so i would have to wait another week until the resident Doc. could deal me the junk! I wish i could have put together a meaningful post but my consentration is shot! beats watching the TV anyway. It seems like me,you appreciate what a fantastic gift life is but are completely unable to unwrap it, now that truely is SAD. Im aware how jumbled and irratic this post is but its made me feel better jabbing away at the keyboard! I wish you and everyone else all the very best of luck for the coming months. David
MargaretP
joined 9 Apr 2005
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Posted by MargaretP, 22:10 13 October 2005

The doctor gave me prozac last Friday, they are still sat on the side. I really dont want to take them. My headaches are back each day, normally starting mid afternoon. I have co-codamol for them and I have found by taking 2 early evening ..... if I can last that long .... does help me sleep.
I must say taking the omega 3 seems to have made a difference I do feel calmer.
Margaret.
siddy
joined 22 Jan 2003
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Posted by siddy, 08:05 14 October 2005

Hello Margaret,

have you taken Prozac before? I know for me taking the meds always feels like a defeat that my regime is not working but I know from past experiences I need meds as well to function better. I normally spend weeks mulling it over trying to leave it as late as possible but from my many previous experiences it normally ends up in a crash without them.

I started the early this year and I feel they are helping me and my motivation seems good for the time of year.

hope this helps

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 12:15 14 October 2005

Right it is 11:29 am, and I am in front of my Pharos-Max 4 hours behind schedule. Sleep pattern last night was even worse. Went to bed at 10 pm and didn't get any quality sleep until after 7 am and finally awoke properly at 10:24 am.

Julie, thanks for your comments, and I am aiming to give the sertraline a good 8 week trial. At least it keeps me awake :? .

Dave, I hear you man. My concentration is shot too, and I usually edit my posts in Word for hours to get them in a reasonable state. However, for the mental excercise, and as a way to monitor my performance I am not using Word anymore. People will have to live with my errors. At lest posting does use your brain, unlike vegging out in front the TV. Good luck in getting your ADs.

Margaret, I was going to post a reply in another thread after you mentioned your headache. If given the choice to get rid of one symptom, I would choose to lose the headache. Although nothing touches mine, my SAD desire to sleep always gets past the pain. I have always hated taken medications, but I know what the outcome is going to be if I just leave my SAD to run its course. This summer has been my worst ever, and I dread to think what I will be like by February without some intervention. Hence, I will continue my trial of sertraline despite currently experiencing unwanted side effects, and no major benefit.

Siddy, I hope you are coping optimally.

Pete, if you're out there, my bodyclock does seem to be a little out of sync all of a sudden :wink: .

Joel xXx

By my clock, I have finnished this post in...46 mins :roll: .
Kelley
joined 21 Oct 2005
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Posted by Kelley, 23:52 21 October 2005

Hi Joel and all,

This is my first post and all, but I couldn't help but reply. I completely understand about the anger part, Joel. For me, anger at the little things is my most uncontrolable SAD thing, other than the depression, of course. I call it my "bear," and that also includes my craving for breads and sweets and my desire to simply sleep the winter away. This year has been worse than usual, and the bear has made so many appearances I actually named it. Now if my husband asks where I'm going I simple say "Gunthor wants snack!" and we laugh about it instead of cry.

And I guess that is something. I've been where you are, Joel. I simply can't remember a time that I haven't been seasonal, and until a few years ago, suicidal. And it took until my late twenties to even figure out it was SAD. And, until this year I had the headaches every day. They ended up being unrelated - I have allergies all year round to dust, pollen, mold, dogs, you name it I have it and didn't realize it because instead of a stuffy nose and sneezing I had sinus headaches. Especially worse in winter when the house is closed up, the furnace blowing around all that dust and dog dander I don't have the energy to clean. Now I'm on a couple allergy meds that aren't perfect, but help alot.

Realizing what you have is the first step. Getting a good therapist (and I mean a GOOD one you trust who has both a sense of humor and flexibility) is the second. Everything from there is experimental. I do okay with light, but have really scary reactions to the drugs. Nothing makes the depression go away completely, but it makes for enough good days that life is worth living. I have really good winters (last year!) and really bad winters (this fall, so far). Got a treadmill and some DVDs of old Star Trek shows and that actually helps, though I hate to exercise. Life can be worth living even if you don't feel like it right now - try everything - you really don't know what is going to work. I've just ordered an extra-bright LED dawn simulator lamp in hopes that will get me doing a little better than I am now. Keep trying - the light therapy didn't work for me in earlier fall when I first started, but really helps in darker winter - and know that all of us are out here scrambling to figure out what the heck works and how to fine-tune it as our bodies change.

Kelley

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 21:47 22 October 2005

Hi Kelley/Gunthor

Welcome, and thanks for posting. I'm still struggling on the sertraline; not sleeping too well, and not feeling like exercising much as a result. My first psychotherapy session was on Thursday. The psychotherapist, Lorraine, was very nice, and thought I should get my headache checked out by my GP - I did, and he thinks that it is related to my 'mood disorder'. The first few therapy sessions are just going through my life history.

What does a sinus headache feel like? My headache is to the top and to the rear of my head. When it is really bad, it feels like someone is dangling me from a rope threaded right though my head about an inch above each ear - not that I know what that actually feels like. During very stressful times, between October and May, the pain can be excruciating. Hence, I used to quit work during that period, because I thought that it was the job making me ill. Within a couple of days of quitting, my headache would return to its more bearable state, and I would start looking for new employment. You would laugh at the number of jobs on my honest CV – I’ve probably had more jobs, than you have had hot dinners. It is good to hear that you have found a control method for your headache.

Giving up completely is a last resort, and I'm not there just yet. In fact, I'm still searching for other avenues. Good luck with your dawn simulator, and writing.

Joel xXx
GreenGianty
joined 5 Oct 2005
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Posted by GreenGianty, 18:07 25 October 2005

Hi Joel.

Not sure I can add anything which hasn't been said before, but like you say, you have to keep on trying.

Do try and keep up the cycling, and try joining a club (they are a lot of fun! plus I find forcing myself to go on the club runs helps keep me sociable).

In anycase, look after yourself.

regards

--
Brian

Anonymous
joined 20 Nov 2008
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Posted by Anonymous, 04:21 31 October 2005

All of that and I still dont get it.

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 15:19 6 November 2005

Cheers Brian, and you take care too.

The problem about forcing myself to do things involving socialising (including working), other than in the Summer, is that the stress and anxiety create a positive feedback loop escallating my SAD symptoms. Gradually, I reach the total shut down, and I want just to die point :( .

Before I knew I had SAD, I was too busy trying to sort out what direction to go in during the summer, rather than making the most of my reduced SAD symptoms to socialise. Usually, I would have been working, and lining up educational courses for the autumn to get my life going in a direction that I thought would be beneficial for me :roll: .

My psychotherapist reckons that she can help me on the anxiety front :) - I'm sceptical.

I told my shrink about the sertraline not working, and the insomnia. I am about to start taking 15 mg of mirtazapine in the evenings to help combat the insomnia, to help F up my immune system, and to give me an insatiable appetite. I would have had the drug by now, but SAD confusion caused me to miss my appointment with my GP. I thought Thursday was Friday, so when given an appointment for 'tomorrow morning', I stored it in my mind as Saturday morning. Later I realised that the day was in fact Thursday, but I still had my appointment memorised as being on Saturday. Friday evening I mentioned the appointment to my friend's mum, and found out that the clinic no longer opens on Saturdays - the appointment was of course for Friday morning :roll: .

I have kept the pharos max, because I couldn't be bothered with the hassle of returning it - in more debt :roll: . Currently I have stopped light therapy for a while, so that I can try it again soon to see if it does have any effect.

Resigning myself to doing nothing, and just concentrating on getting safely through the winter, has begun paying dividends as usual - my headache is down to a much more managable level :) .

Still no news on my benefit claim, or my referral to the Southampton SAD Clinic :roll: .

I wish I could do some serious writing, but the only topics that I can manage to produce any quantity on are my basic feelings and opinions. Even then, the quality is somewhat lacking :( .

I hope you're all doing as well as possible.

Joel xXx

PS Phantom quoter guest, if you're going to post, you could at least inject some humour to cheer us up a bit.

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 12:22 9 November 2005

My phone phobia is in full swing again now.

Not sure if I mentioned it before, but I was very dissapointed with the Job Broker service at the Job Centre. I thought that they would help me find an employer that would be flexible with my employment due to my disability. No such luck, their main remit is only helping you apply for ordinary jobs :roll: .

I'm just about to set off to collect my mirtazapine, and I'll let you know how it is affecting me in a few days time. Luckily I live in a largely equestrian area, so if my appetite really does become insatiable, there will be plenty of food around for me :P .

Sunny weather...

Joel xXx
Linda
Linda
joined 15 Dec 2004
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Posted by Linda, 20:01 9 November 2005

Good luck with the mirtazapine Joel. My doctor put me on a high starting dose when I came to him in tears, and one pill knocked me out for two days -- it definitely has a sedative effect so hopefully it will do the trick for you.
My GP also told me that most of his patients don't get the weight gain sometimes associated with this particular drug. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, it's just what he said. I didn't continue to take the mirtazapine because I was a walking zombie with it.
I'm sure you will find something that works for you Joel, it's good that you haven't given up.
Linda.

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 12:35 13 November 2005

Although I have accepted SAD to some degree, my psychotherapist has reminded me of how little acceptance that actually means. She wants me to stop directing my energy towards attaining a normal life, and instead learn to deal with my SAD on a ‘realistic’ basis assuming that I will never be able to find a successful treatment regime.

The good thing about having my worst summer ever, is that I am now fully aware that I can have depressive symptoms without necessarily feeling low. Online self-assessments for depression tell me: ‘you are severely depressed, please consult your doctor as soon as possible’. I suppose that living with something for so long; you do find ways to adapt for survival. Unfortunately, surviving is not the same as living for humans. Additionally, I have faked happiness so much, that even I cannot tell if I truly enjoy something. Do I see that other people enjoy it, and decide that I should enjoy it too? So when asked, did you enjoy that, I automatically reply, yes I did, just so that I fit in as normal. Everything has become so blurred, and I still need to ask who I am. Who am I? What is the real me like?

The mirtazapine is having a mixed effect. Although I can get off to sleep slightly easier, and sleep for slightly longer before awakening, once awake I have insomnia yet feel very drowsy. Overall, I am reaching the conclusion that the sertraline, even augmented with mirtazapine, is having no beneficial effect. However, that said I will finish out my current supply – to get my money’s worth, if nothing else. I guess that it is time to try adding in the light therapy again too. Re-exploring old avenues of help, I have written to my MP for a second time as well. It is a shame that I feel so selfish, because there are so many needy people in this country, let alone the rest of the world.

Luckily, the mirtazapine has never forced me to need to recite Richard III, so no horses in Yateley were harmed during the making of this post.

Joel xXx

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 12:32 15 December 2005

Not going to reply to other posts; just need to vent:

No benefits, job, life, friends, love, help, peace, referral, proper sleep, sense of worth, one to listen.

Light therapy does work, but is only effective as the ADs - something majorly lacking still.

Stopped sertraline and mirtazapine; started duloxetine - still feel inhuman.

Is nice to see some success stories here though.

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 10:07 4 January 2006

No money, so have I tried going back to cleaning at Waitrose. Found out that the old management didn’t want me on the premises after they fired me – two faced b’tards. The current management don’t mind having in a contractor though, but I am not very well anyway

I’m feeling very suicidal, possibly intensified by the duloxetine (another SNRI like the venlafaxine which turned my summer into a suicide fest.). I was also very stressed out in the summer, because I did not want to end up here again. I see absolutely no future for myself, and I have nothing to offer anyone else except depression or lies. I cannot take the loneliness and pain any longer.

Saw the only available doctor this morning, Dr Palmer, The Oaklands Practice,Yateley Medical Centre, Oaklands,Yateley, Hampshire GU46 7LS. She was a real uncaring, f’ing evil bitch. All I got was a set of lectures on keeping continuity by seeing the same doctor, how smiling in a mirror and working will make me feel much better, and that she cannot do anything for me. Why the f’ she became a doctor is completely beyond me. Thanks to her I am feeling more motivated for suicide right now than ever before.

The sun has just appeared to taunt me. Since I would rather have a shot at life, I am going to use today to travel around making one last plea for help. If I get fobbed off, then I think you can work out what will happen for yourselves.

Best of luck to you all, and I hope that you will all cope better than I.

Joel xXx

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 08:55 5 January 2006

Oh well, all I achieved yesterday was getting an appointment with my shrink, Dr Kittler, brought forward by 2 weeks (17 January 2006). Dr Hulme, who I considered to be the most caring GP at my local clinic turned out to be like all the rest. All the health professionals that I am seeing admit that there is nothing that they can do for me, so what is the point of me seeing them anymore? I lo found out that the PCT won’t fund a referral to anywhere else, so apparently my life is only worth -£6.50 to society – that s less than worthless. Guess it is time to settle my finances, make final arrangements, and check out then.

See you all around, and I wish you all the best for your futures.

Joel xXx
Linda
Linda
joined 15 Dec 2004
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Posted by Linda, 11:04 5 January 2006

Joel I'm very sad that things don't seem to be going your way. Of course we folks here don't want to see anything bad happen to you. I think, at least in my case, that we don't know what else to suggest you do, apart from keep being assertive with the health care professionals and keep looking for answers. This may seem like a silly question, but have you tried calling NHS Direct? They're not experts in anything, but last time I phoned them in tears, they asked me if I was thinking of harming myself. Maybe they can offer you the immediate assistance you seem to require, or at least guide you to someone who can help.
I do hope you can find the answers you need Joel. We forget how wonderful "normality" is when we are feeling low for a long time, but it's out there, and I'm sure it's achievable. It's the least we all deserve.
Best wishes,
Linda.
Wayward Sun
joined 5 Jan 2006
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Posted by Wayward Sun, 11:32 5 January 2006

Hello Joel,

Just found this great place myself. This is the worst winter I have ever had and finally found my real problem (SAD).

I sincerely hope you don't check out. I was there w/ the gun in my mouth when I felt the presence of a deceased uncle. He came to me and stopped me. He told me to stay around awhile. I used to wonder sometimes why?
I have worked very hard most all my life (40 now). I work a job (seasonal of coarse), now where men 15 years younger than me quit after a day. Some just disappear after a few hours. Others scoff at our quota as crazy. The heaviest thing I have ever carried was my brother to his grave after he blew his own head off. That was 9 years ago. 2 years ago my uncle did the same, completely unexpected to us. Having lived in an area slammed hard in the 80's economically I have lost at least half a dozen friends and neighbors this way over the years.
At times I still wonder why my uncle stopped me but having now lived through those deaths, seeing the grief, I know why he stopped me. If not for me, for them, the relatives and friends, and knowing an officer who sometimes has trouble dealing w/ life because she has been called to so many of these scenes.

I sincerely hope you don't check out.

Is there really no way you can move somewhere better. Morrison once sang "I've never been so broke that I couldn't leave town". I have always tried to think that way. If it ever gets too bad I know w/ a little food money these boots can walk me in the direction I want to go.

No matter your location you need to make enough money to eat. They may not be glamorous but there are basic jobs everywhere that will at least do that. Get there and don't you think your improving attitude will do the rest? W/ your intelligence I'm certain that it will. Can you cook? Sailboats are always looking for crew. Where do most usually sail? Sunny locales. Where do they sail? Maybe somewhere you want to go. :wink:

I can not save you as I am still trying to save myself but I had to respond to the suicide thing.

:D :D :D I hope everyone has a great day. :D :D :D
au52
joined 2 Jan 2006
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Posted by au52, 12:22 5 January 2006

Well, I hope I have a good day today. It's 6:18 in the morning, and I'm not quite sure why, but I have the energy to sit up and use the computer. I feel better for it being the morning than I have in at least a month.

I've only had one close relative to me ever commit suicide. This was back when I was baout 8. She was an aunt of mine, and she would read me stories and play games with me outside, ect. Somewhere around her 45th birthday, she shot herself in the head. I only learned this when I was about 11. My parents used to always tell me that she had been very sick or that she was in an accident. I guess I'm somewhat happy they lied to me, I didn't need to start losing that wonderful childhood innocence and being naive yet.

I have had my own thoughts before, but I would never carry them out. I don't view my own life as something that I should be able to end. Anytime I even get close to thinking about stuff like this, I still have pictures of myself, others, or just outside back in August and June, and they help a lot. I have songs that remind me of Summer nights that I used to spend listening to music and being with friends until 2 in the morning. I know that it'll come back, if not for 4 months, but it'll come back.

Hell, last year, we had a week in March that saved me. The second week of March last year where I live, we had a heat wave. For about 5 days or so it was in the 70-80's fahrenheit and very very sunny, and my neighbor's cousin and her friend came over from Sweeden, and I had some of my friends come over, and we spent every night having a party. Two weeks after that, I got to take Spring Break off in Florida. That was amazing, but how hard it was to get out of the airport in Milwaukee to a cloudy sky and about 40 degrees...but at least summer was only a month away.
siddy
joined 22 Jan 2003
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Posted by siddy, 19:57 5 January 2006

Hello

I think wayward son touched a chord when he talked about a prescence which was there to support him. I do believe and have personally received evidence via mediums (proper ones) that we are being supported by souls who have passed over to the spiritual plane. Joel I think nothing I say will change your position but from what I understand we are down here to learn and test ourselves in the physical world. I would say to you talk to anyone you have a connection with in the spirit world remember the nice experiences and love you had for them and ask for help.

If you top yourself you have to come back to the physical world and try again I'm afraid 'nothingness' after death is a nice idea but isn't reality.

Doctors are frustrating............................... :roll:

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 22:51 5 January 2006

I don't mind coming back so long as I don't have SAD; or if I do have to have SAD again, then hopefully I'll either be the offsping of a rich b'stard, or live somewhere much suunier nearer the equator.

Today was funny, I got made to look like a crimainal for trying to get a copy of the messsage about the funding of my referral - apparently it doesn't exist anymore.

I'll have to upload my medical history before I go, there is some classic stuff in it now which shows that my shrink, Dr Kittler, never listened to a single word that I confided in her. I award her first prize in the most uncaring bitch of my life category.

Sorry for all the other crap that I gave you guys. You really do help a lot off people, and long my it continue. I'm well past the cry for help phase now - I did try NHS direct once more in the hope of getting a direct telephone number for a specialist clinic to plea for an appointment, but I got the usual talk to your GP spiel. I don't need to be talked out of commiting suicide, that can easily be achieved with a promise to at least assess my medical condition properly. Try this pill and see how much it can f' you up has gotten beyond a joke.

I'm too tired to sort things out for myself, and despite having a high IQ, my mental age is nearer that of a 12 year old. I suppose I kind of hope for a reprive, but I can tell with the attitudes that I encouter, that is simply about the fact that I am not worth saving (Joel's life = the cost of an NHS prescription circa -£6.50). Therefore, I will be doing the NHS a service by saving them money.

Since life seems to be all about money, I'll just leave you with some more interesting Joel financial facts: My life's gross total income before tax (including student loans, benefits, loans, financial gifts, and compensation) doesn't quite make it to £50,000. That is less than a GP makes in one year, and I have been of working age for nearly 14 years. The average (medaian) annual income in the UK is about £23,000. Oh and by the way I have never been lazy - in the summer I thought nothing of charging around carrying twice my own bodyweight in the TA, or lugging building materials accross bogs all day by hand for Hampshire Wildlife Trust and for no pay.
madhamster
joined 16 Jan 2006
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Posted by madhamster, 11:28 16 January 2006

Hey Joel, could I use your experience to do a project?

We are creating a nonprofit, educational website for the ThinkQuest competition.

Our final website will be published in the ThinkQuest Library, a free educational resource located at http://www.thinkquest.org. We will honor your copyright by giving your organization full credit and citing you as one of our sources.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,
David
madhamster@gmail.com

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 13:35 16 January 2006

Just couldn't do it: I set a time and date; planned to go out leaving a message for my GP; but I just couldn't do it. Why? I'm not really sure to be honest. My main overriding thoughts are my concerns not to hurt other people, or to leave them with the trauma of finding my body - damn conscience. I really don’t care about myself in the slightest, I don’t feel love, and I have nothing to live for, so why can’t I overcome my compassion. All I have now are some wonderful scars to remind me of the occasion, and plenty of self loathing. What do I do next?

Anyhow, it seems that it was the duloxetine fuelling the desperation and obsessive suicidal tendencies. Now its effects are gone, and I am in my more usual winter state with apathy, the urge to hibernate, and all things SAD.

Dave (madhamster), yes you can use my experiences for anything you want. I have nothing to hide, and if my experiences can help anyone in the slightest, then that is the only useful thing that I can do. For months I had been trying to set up a website of my own, but I just cannot manage it. All I managed to do was to finish writing notes on my SAD history as part of my suicide information pack for my GP.

Hail Helios!
au52
joined 2 Jan 2006
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Posted by au52, 21:06 17 January 2006

Joel, my suggestion would be going to some kind of UK equivalent to the Urgent Care Center (not a hospital, but more urgent than an appointment to a clinic) and telling them you need to see a doctor. You need to find help immediatly.

Posted by Seasonally Apathetic & Disillusioned, 23:13 31 January 2006

Thanks for your concern folks, and I am sorry that I brought my desperation to the forum. None of the healthcare professionals helped me, but with some of your input I pulled through the worst Christmas and New Year of my life. All of those troublesome synthesised meds are now out of my system, and I am back to how I remember previous winters; the depression and desperation have largely disappeared, but all of the other symptoms are still poisoning me.

Currently I am back looking for ideas of self help. Against the advice of SADA, I am trying Hypericum perforatum extract, since my current doctors refuse to try medications not licensed for the treatment of depression. I think I’ll see if I can try some acupuncture soon too. Part time work is still a mare, but things could be worse. The shrinks are going no where, but I am getting a second opinion in late February. A referral to a Southampton mood disorder clinic might still happen, but I am not holding my breath. I started an autogenics course on Monday, which is quite tricky, as other forms of relaxation are for me. I cannot even say words in my head smoothly – it is like I have a mental tremor. My psychologist suggested that I return to the forum, since my experiences and opinions are supposed to be as valid as everyone else’s, and running away from conflict rather than resolving it is bad. She also says my living space is too small and unhealthy, so I’m back, sorry. I am trying extra hard to police myself. My main subject of contention is people trying to make money out of our suffering. In desperation I have wasted thousands on trying to treat myself. That money was torture to earn, and could have been spent on a sunny vacation that would have worked. Instead predatory people have taken advantage of my vulnerability, and cashed in on it. I’m basically a 12 year old academic with no experience of normal life, which is why I am struggling more as I approach 30. It is a shame that everyone else, myself included, sees 29 year old loser, and their help is merely words like 'move/work abroad'.

On the research front, I have been trying to follow the hangover analogy. Despite reassuring myself with procrastination that I will be able to get some useful work done, the truth is that my SAD impaired mind just isn’t up to the task for now. My general hypothesis is an extension of some existing photoneuroendocrine SAD mechanism models. My own symptoms, suggest that far more glands play a part than previously suggested. My headache is indicative of pituitary gland dysfunction, which leads to adrenal glands dysfuncti