SAD Whinger

Hello Joel,
there is a lot of issues in your posting and firstly I would like to ask what keeps you alive? This includes what you enjoy from life and if you have family e.t.c. If you are alive because suicide is too scary to contemplate that is a reason also.
Why do you need to undertake a degree course?
Do you need to work for financial reasons, have you been on the dole?
How do you see your future options?
What would you like to see change in your life.

This might help me understand where you are coming from..............

Hi Joel

Althought its the summer break for many of the saddies I think there is many that can relate to what you have said.

We all have diffrent experences with SAD and all come to terms that we are not total loonies but people that have a disorder that effects our normal funching in the winter and at times can overspill into summer if we let it.

From all walks of life we come, the poor, the rich and the quite silly. But all with support for other Saddies. Some of us disapear but most reapear as the winter arives yet again to have its fun with us.....

keep smiling :D

Siddy,

Thanks for your words. I have that book already, and the only thing that has helped from it has been increasing my protein consumption to alleviate the carbohydrate craving. Light therapy doesn’t seem to work for me. I suspect, that since my symptoms persist virtually all year round even when I have been working outdoors, that maybe I need even more intense light - which is why I’m trying to get more specialised SAD help.

I have done voluntary work (outdoors work for Hampshire Wildlife Trust) which I really enjoyed, but besides the fact that it provided no income, I could only really manage to do it from April until the end of August (when my symptoms are reduced sufficiently). I don’t know how to define myself, because everything I once enjoyed has been robbed from me, all I do is help people at my own expense just to get that little bit of satisfaction from a smile. I only diagnosed myself this year, and I am still trying to come to terms with the realisation that Joel hasn’t truly come into being yet – I caught a glimpse of him on the island of Corsica in 2000 (and I loved what I saw). Since I was 12 SAD has been brainwashing me and making all of my decisions for me. All of my issues relate to the symptoms of SAD.

You are right about formal education, but I don’t know how else to get into a position where I can use the intelligence that I was blessed with (wish I could actually use it unimpaired though). According to IQ tests I’m in the top percentile in the country, and everyone who has the misfortune to meet me thinks that I am very intelligent. Hell, I know I am. This is one of the most frustrating aspects of SAD for me – I’m asking for help from people that I am generally more intelligent than (superiority complex kicks in), and just getting patronisingly stonewalled in return. I always wanted to be a doctor for crying out aloud. My main problem comes from storing stuff in my short-term memory and getting things down on paper as quickly as colleges, and employers would like. Without a computer I’d be even more stuffed. Before SAD got a grip on me, I used to be able to handwrite 400 words per side of A4 paper, error free, every 30 mins. Now it takes me at least 2 hours to try and achieve the same result on a computer (and that is just a stream of whinge). Trying to write up scientific reports is virtually impossible – what should take an afternoon takes me weeks. Speech recognition software would be useful, but I have an overbite and lips that Mick Jagger would be jealous of (really helps with the anxiety thing too), which causes me to naturally mumble, thereby rendering the software useless. I am trying to get this problem resolved (to help with my anxiety over my physical appearance and over my difficulty to communicate effectively, and with the skin problems that I have with my lips) but I have to go private, and surprise, surprise I have no money.

If my family was rich then SAD wouldn’t be a problem at all - I would have gotten diagnosed quicker, emigrated to somewhere like Australia, and trained as a doctor there. Instead (cue violins) I have to keep wallowing in my own self pity making futile attempts each year to try and get some sort of consistent normality going in my life. The more I try to fight SAD the worse it fight back. And I’m never going to be in a financial, nor mental position to facilitate emigration without help – I’m pleading, but none is forthcoming.

I am truly glad that you have found a lifestyle to cope, Siddy. In addition, I wish you a long and happy future. As for me, if nothing changes soon then I can see no point in trying to keeps my existence going – I will be SAD and lonely forever. This prospect I cannot allow, and so suicide is still there on my list of realistic options for now. Preferentially, I would rather like to be able follow an option involving living, but those options require help, which isn’t forth coming presently.

Happy summer

Joel

Linda,

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I’m trying not to sound too self centred, and trying not to imply that my situation is any worse than anyone else’s. If you knew me, you would know how caring I truly am; I feel deeply for anyone having difficulties, and I will help them to the best of my ability. By sharing my own experiences, I am trying to gain insight from those with similar problems and expose possible routes to help for others and myself along the way - so that we can all forget about that suicide option.

I do not profess to be an expert on the subject of SAD/ depression either, but I have formed very strong opinions about my own particular case. You must remember that I have had what I am still 100% sure is SAD for a total of 17 years without knowing what it was until the end of February this year. People could argue this year that because I think I have SAD, then my symptoms are purely psychosomatic. This is a groundless argument for all of those previous years. With the computer age, I have access to Met Office data, and I also have a paper trail of records from which I can see what I was doing at various times of each year. Although I never kept a diary, from my bank records, for instance, I can see at any particular time: what job I was doing (whether I was indoors or out), remember how I felt at the time, and why I quit that job eventually etc.

The information that I have at my disposal shows a definite correlation between my mood/ ability to function, and the monthly sunshine hours in my locality. Years that have been particularly bad for me have been when I have started full-time indoor work/education in the autumn. Funnily enough, I perceive my depression as a mere symptom/ result of SAD, but to many doctors SAD is purely a seasonal pattern ascribed to depression – they use the argument that everyone feels better when they can get outdoors during sunny weather. The reason that I have this view is that there have been times when I consider myself to have been free from depression, but I still exhibited all of the other usual SAD symptoms, including my constant fatigue, constant headache, anxiety and carbohydrate craving.

Trying to gain my BSc (Hons) in Environmental Protection (Conservation Management) represents three interesting years in terms of my SAD suffering, and follows the year I went to Corsica in 2000 (where I felt like a normal human being for the first time since the age of 12) . Each year I was relatively happy from the friends point of view, because I had made loads of new friends and was socialising as much as possible especially during the spring ( honestly my social life had never been so good, and I had made the decision not to stress about trying to get a girlfriend until I finished my degree). It is with reference to my academic performance that SAD took its toll. During lectures, I was tired, but I was flaunting my intelligence for all to see, and helping to explain things to others. Virtually from the start of each academic year, I could discuss things, but getting written work done was like having writers block - it just couldn’t physically happen.

During the first year of my degree, I went to see the college counsellor and my GP (he put me on fluoxetine) about my coursework woes. Nothing changed, so I came off the pills after a few months, and gave up on the counselling. All of this time I was still what I would call happy, it was just the frustration of not understanding why I couldn’t get the course work done that was beginning to get to me. Then after Easter that year a miracle occurred, and the coursework block disappeared, I rattled through a years worth of coursework in a week, and got ‘A’ grades for all of my summer assignments (to give me a predicted first class degree). I still felt tired and everything wasn’t as great as it had been in Corsica the year before, but I still felt very optimistic about my future, During the Summer I carried on with my volunteering for Hampshire Wildlife Trust and did loads of reading for the second year of my degree.

When I started year two my lecturers were most impressed with the knowledge that I had gained over the summer from my voluntary work and reading. However, suddenly reading and writing became impossible and the coursework backed up again – another useless visit to my GP entailed. After Easter that year I went on a work placement with my friends at Hampshire Wildlife Trust – they too had become impressed with my intelligence and put me in charge of their survey and monitoring work. Just like it did the previous year my ability to do coursework returned. Fatefully whilst cycling to Reading I was maimed by a taxi diver, and spent loads of time indoors with achilles tendon damage – my reading and writing ability faded away again even though I had more free time to dedicate to it. I missed the critical deadline but was allowed to repeat the year in light of my special circumstances (he fact that my GP had diagnosed depression).

After my Achilles tendon healed in the summer, I got outdoor socialising and volunteering again. Yep, my reading and writing ability returned and I started writing up all of my monitoring work for the wildlife trust. Just as I returned to uni they asked me to produce a report for English nature – this would never get finished. The start of this repeat of the second year in 2003 followed the pattern of the previous two. This time as we broke for revision just before Easter I had another cycling accident and produced a custom shoulder – I’ve had my resultant trouble with that shoulder finally fixed this year (Yay to the NHS for something!). I was due to return to the Wildlife Trust for another work placement and they were on my back for the report still. I stalled them and the college with lies whilst I was recovering. By the time I could get mobile again, uni had finished but I thought that I had a deadline in July. I went on holiday in June with an auth to the Lake District I took my laptop to try to work on my coursework. By the time the fortnight was over my abilities in the reading and writing department had significantly returned. When I got back home I was all set to rattle through my coursework again, but there was a letter waiting for me telling me that I had been kicked off the course.

Now is that all just a coincidence: when it is overcast times of the year, or when I spend a lot of time indoors, my cognitive skills are less than desirable; but when it is sunny and I spend much time outdoors my cognitive skills miraculously return. Like I say, I never felt A1 as I did in Corsica, but I don’t consider myself to have been suffering from depression as such during those years. The dramatic difference in my academic performance, I now attribute to my exposure to sunlight. What do you think?

This year I think that I definitely have clinical depression and extreme stress on top of my SAD; but purely because I think my SAD can be overcome by either stronger light therapy, or by emigrating, but no one is helping me. They want to treat just one symptom, and not the SAD itself.

My SAD depression exhibits itself when I am under stress – usually when I’m working in high stress menial jobs where I have no control. It is not generally a problem during the summer and tends to peak in January or February depending on available sunlight. I enjoyed my degree course and wasn’t stressed apart from my frustration with the coursework, hence, I don’t consider depression to be much of an SAD symptom in my degree years.

So there you have my food for thought for you; a kind of a chicken and egg situation. Is SAD a way depression exhibits itself, or is it a separate entity entirely which has depression as a more extreme symptom?

Sorry if I have lost the plot with this post, but I have been writing it over several hours. I’ll think I’ll better stop now. Anyhow, I hope that you will be victorious over your SAD/ depression Linda, and the same goes for anyone who reads this post. Your thoughts on any of the issues raised would be appreciated. Oh and before I forget, I have tried somewhere in the region of 20 antidepressants up to their recommended maximum doses, since I left school; they all either did nothing but make me feel even more tired, gave me gastric trouble, or in the case of venlafaxine increased my suicidal tendencies.

Take care

Love Joel xXx

Linda

It is funny you should mention Apollo Heath because I have two of their light boxes (their Sun Touch Plus thingy, and their Golite P1). I can feel a tingly sensation in my brain when I am using either of them, especially the Golite; but I feel no better for it, no matter when I take the treatment, how long the treatment time, nor how close I get to the light. I’ve only been trying light therapy since I diagnosed myself this year. One reason I thought it might not be working was that I started using it when my symptoms were full-blown, and it is referred to as a preventative measure rather than a cure – I will persevere with it in any case to see if it makes a difference in the Autumn.

This morning I remembered a diagram from ‘Winter Blues’ by Norman E Rosenthal, which summarises the pattern of my SAD symptoms quite well. If you have access to the book, I am referring to figure 9, Page 207. The figure shows how a succession of symptoms gradually lowers you down to the deepest one, depression, in the depths of winter before the process reverses – kind of going down steps in the autumn, reaching the basement in winter, and then beginning the climb back up the steps to the normality of summer in spring. Each step is a separate symptom, and it shows how there are definite layers to SAD suffering. Unfortunately, I never make it to the top in this country, but then luckily I don’t reach the very bottom very often either; as I said before it is only when lack of sunlight and high stress combine, that I reach rock bottom.

I agree with Dr Rosenthal in his model of SAD, due to my own experiences. However, from the few psychiatrists and doctors that I have spoken to in the UK, I get the impression that they have been taught that SAD is just a manifestation of clinical depression that can be helped by light therapy. In my own, all be it SAD mind, I think that SAD is just plain and simply a condition resulting from lack of exposure to sunlight, and that the depression directly linked to it is merely the ultimate symptom of the condition. Nothing of course is usually black and white, and I am sure that there are people with clinical depression that experience seasonal patterns to their depression; just as there are SAD sufferers that experience clinical depression as a result of the frustration that their SAD symptoms cause (me at the moment for instance). I wish that there was more separation of the conditions in the UK, then maybe I could get more direct help for my SAD, rather than being fobbed off with treatments for depression all of the time.

Linda, I actually checked out your profile, and I read that you are a teacher. Well done for achieving what you have despite your problems; I always wanted to be a doctor first, or then a teacher second if the first one didn’t work out. Sadly (no pun intended) I have been prevented from reaching either of these careers due to SAD. Even my billionth alternative career of stacking shelves for Waitrose wouldn’t work out. What do you teach, out of interest?

Anyhow, I’m off to visit my sister and nieces for the day, so it’s time to start smiling.

Love Joel xXx

English…hmmm. You’ll have to excuse my grammar and punctuation, because I usually have to relearn those areas of English each year; and this year I haven’t gotten round to it yet for obvious reasons. But hey, managing to become an English teacher - I don't even know you, and yet I'm so proud of you.

I have been taking 5-HTP, omega oils, and vitamin and mineral supplements for the past couple of months. Additionally I have been avoiding caffeine, and alcohol. Now do I feel any better? Alas, no; but again I am persevering to just to see if something will happen over time. Exercise does provide temporary relief, but it is quite a hard slog battling the fatigue all of the time. The short-lived endorphin high is worth the effort though. I have just taken up cycling again, which I had given up a couple of years ago -due to a number of near death experiences, and the fact that I thought the daily exertion could have been a reason behind my poor academic performance.

Before I saw the psychiatrist I tried 1 hour of light therapy first thing in the morning, then I extended it to 2 hours, and then I tried adding an additional hour in the evening. I did pick up a little bit, but I think this was due to being removed from my biggest source of stress – Waitrose. My GP thought the improvement was due to the 75 mg of venlafaxine that he had prescribed for depression. After seeing the psychiatrist, my venlafaxine dose doubled and I was told to get at least 10 hours of light therapy per day. Following, these instruction, I ended up slitting my wrist. When my GP saw the state I was in, he increased the venlafaxine dose to the maximum. Despair and thoughts of suicide, were taking over, what few friend I have were getting scared about my safety. Fortunately, I had one of my revelations in the shower; I remembered the stories about Prozac and increases in suicidal tendencies. A quick hunt for ‘venlafaxine suicide’ using Google, produced results which by then I was fully expecting to find. Sure enough, there was a strong link particularly with venlafaxine and suicidal tendencies in adolescents. Since coming off of the venlafaxine, the light therapy alone does not seem to be doing much other than making my brain feel tingly, and seemingly taking the edge off of my constant headache.

Holiday wise, I have no money, and my passport runs out soon too. Besides, I have no one to go with, and the thought of going anywhere strange alone terrifies me at this moment in time. If I can sort something out with a friend and get my passport renewed it would probably be a useful thing if it would mean that I could get some time to truly think clearly.

Returning to the SAD/depression separate entity debate; how sure are you that SAD is not a separate entity? I know you’re not an expert, neither am I, but I do appreciate an honest opinion, and I will never dismiss anyone else’s opinion completely – I have been known to be wrong on occasions too. Is it your own opinion, or is it simply what the doctors have told you? I‘m still certain in my mind that SAD is a separate entity, although other conditions can blur it, and major clinical depression may result from it -I’m probably heading down that road this year. In my opinion doctors in this country are reluctant to accept that SAD does exist as a condition in its own right – the world is flat posse of our times :wink: .

I’m still impressed with what the SAD suffers who post in this forum have achieved in life. I sit here and think to myself: next year I’m 30; I was one of the brightest kids at school, and what have I achieved? The answer is SAD for me – I really do feel like the archetypal loser :cry: . Most of you have what I call worthwhile jobs: your teachers, or nurses. On top of that, you have formed relationships, and have started families. How have you achieved all of that? It is all still a distant dream to me, and seems impossible to reach. Oh dear I’ve started drifting down the road of despair again – must be time to conduct that pointless exercise of going to sleep. One last question: how old do you think you were when your SAD symptoms first appeared?

Oh, and despite being quite a bad SAD day, my nieces brought sincere smiles to my face – just as they always manage to do. Now there’s a cheerful note to finish the post on :D .

Good morning, God bless and all the best for a happy future.

Hi Sian,
good to see you have kept up the cycling as I do find I need the buzz of exercise and speed :twisted: to keep me going as well. Hey and take it easy on the motorbike. Don't listen to 'freeway mad' 8) by Saxon prior to any runs on the bike
Hope the little house and change of circumstance is working out and your boys managing.
Kawasaki obviously rule though.................. :wink:

Hi Sian

First, I need to tell Siddy that I am very impressed by just how shiny that Kawasaki is: Does that chrome reflect all available sunlight into you eyes, whilst you’re riding that wee beastie? :wink:

I’m sorry to hear that things have been lass than brilliant for you too Sian, and I hope that things will work out for you as much as possible from now on. Like you, I generally bury myself in exercise, and listening to music. In my youth, I became a metal head at the same time that my SAD started appearing, because I found out that the sound of those very loud heavily distorted electric guitars neutralised my constant headache as long as they are playing – I grew up with the likes of Anthrax, Entombed, Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer, and Sepultura. However, my eardrums have paid the price for a little headache relief. During my teens, I did start learning to plat the Guitar, but SAD put an end to that as well. :roll:

When I was 17, I bought a mountain bike and started cycling everywhere. Later on I got a second hand racer too. By my early twenties, I could have been up to the standard of Lance Armstrong, but I was never rich enough and had all the SAD crap, especially the anxiety, stopping me from joining clubs. The irony of the SAD situation is that although I never feel fit, I am in reality extremely fit, but I just have to motivate myself to keep going through the fatigue and tiredness.

Following my grandparents advice I tried to join the army to ‘make a man of me’, but after looking at my work history the army suggested that I try the TA first. In April 1997, I joined the TA for 3 years. You can probably guess what my attendance was like – not bad from April till the end of August, but then it petered out in September to be a no show until the following April. Whilst in the TA I started running and found that I was damn fast, and after my first session on the ranges, I found that I had another useful talent – I could shoot thing a bloody long way away (That skill has been of great help to me…not!). Anyhow, while my SAD symptoms were at their least I enjoyed all of the running around carrying ridiculous amounts of weight, and charging down the ranges guns blazing. With the shooting team I gained loads of respect and brought a whole load of silver wear to my unit for their first time. Unfortunately, it could never have worked out in the TA, let alone the regular army, while I had SAD, and besides I could never bring myself to kill anyone other than myself. Since the TA I have been an exercise junkie (God bless endorphins), and have kept my weight down despite all of that SAD carbohydrate binging. Occasionally, when the SAD symptoms are at their worst, I loose the motivation to exercise, but I usually regain it within a month.

Accepting that I cannot use my intelligence is very hard – I think I would rather die. My main problem is my loneliness; I have lost touch with loads of my friends in order to spare them my whinging. I wonder whether they were my friends, since they haven’t even tried to contact me – me thinks they were just picking my brains until they had gotten their degrees, or I had taught them a skill that they needed etc. God I hate being this cynical, and bitter. I have one true friend left, but he lives 60 miles away now. To be honest I’m getting of pissed off with all of the advice that I get from friends and family. Trying to open up and explain how I’m feeling, and how SAD affects me is a waste of my breath. They say: ‘you just need to pull yourself together’, or ‘you just need to find something that you are able to do’. What the f@#$ do they think I have been doing until now; they just don’t get it – without a treatment that works or emigrating I cannot do anything. It is a struggle just to look after myself, and I cannot even hold down a cleaning or stacking shelves job. The thought of carrying on alone scares the crap out of me too. I have no magic pot of money to draw on to help me, because I have never been able to work properly as an adult. Hell, it’s all my bloody parents fault for being poor – why haven’t they got a villa in the canaries, or why can’t they pay for me to train as a doctor in Australia? Damn you parents! :evil:

Sorry I keep going off on one. Good luck with your move, and everything else Sian.

Love Joel xXx

Hello Siddy

You’re definitely wise, but nevertheless I think you’re picking up on my inability to articulate myself. Life away from my parents would definitely be less stressful, since they are both retired and are constantly watching over me – I think my father suffers from long-term depression, but it has never been clinically diagnosed. The comment about my parents wealth, was merely a joke that highlights one of the problems I have with human society – I cannot believe we allow people to starve to death for lack of money, while others are wasting vast sums on complete crap just to prove that they are richer than the next person. Given the choice, I would rather work for charity if I didn’t have to keep worrying about putting food on the table, clothes on my back, and a roof over my head etc. Money has gone from a way of trading fairly, in the absence of tradable goods, to the ultimate tool of greed and evil. My father is obsessed with money too, so that is another reason I introduced the topic in a tongue-in-cheek way. :wink:

The Lance Armstrong thing was a bit of a joke as well, but I really do try to take inspiration from those less fortunate than myself, or that have had to overcome adversity to achieve what they have. The cycling bit was trying to illustrate that I have been fighting all my life and that I’ve never given up readily – I only give up when the worst of the SAD kicks in. I cannot carry on when I feel physically sick at the thought of stepping outdoors, and my head hurts so bad that it feels like it is going to explode – that is what drives me towards suicide usually, because I just want the pain to stop. Every year I pulled myself up and pushed harder only to end up in a worse state the harder I push – I assume the SAD feeds off the stress, caused by the pressure that I put upon myself. This is why I am considering suicide for the first time other than when my SAD has been at its worst. It feels like I’ve tried everything, and I cannot face going through another year of failure. The only way to have a bearable autumn and winter is to do nothing, but I don’t want to do nothing and I want to live, not just exist. :cry:

Of course all my friends lives haven’t been easy. SAD or not, I’ve done my best to put on my normal mask and help them through their difficulties, whilst inside I have been a complete wreck myself. I know I do sound selfish, but I swear to you that have always put others first when it comes down to the wire. The only coursework that I finished during my second year of my degree was the group work, because I didn’t want to let the others down. It nearly killed me, but I did it for them and ruined any chance I had of getting my individual work in on time. Family, friends, and work colleagues all call on me when they need help, and even though I am probably being exploited, I go and help them to get that self-satisfaction of being useful – I suppose that is selfish in a roundabout way. :?

I am sorry if you take offence to anything that I have written, but chances are that it has come out wrong anyway - I don’t mean to offend anyone. Anyhow, I don't know why I'm trying to defend myself from a normal stand point, because you have to realise that I have reached adulthood moulded by the symptoms of SAD; I have never experienced having a girlfriend, or steady job - they are still dreams for me. Most of you sound like you developed SAD later in life and have experienced some years of normal adulthood; So please be gentle with me in future, because I have never had that (dare I say it) luxury.

I’m sorry to hear about your knee Siddy. I’ve had Achilles trouble and complications from a broken collar bone in the past. Fortunately, I am now trouble free thanks to the NHS, and I only have my nemesis, SAD, to contend with. Keep biking and smiling. :D

Joel

Thank you for taking the time to post again Siddy. This is the third time someone else has helped me to open my eyes to things that I have been blind to. The first time was the inspiration to spot my irrationality, proving that something other than my personality was to blame for my problems - SAD. The second was to spot that I was deteriorating – enabling me to realise that I was reacting badly to venlafaxine. Before I tell you how you have helped me, I will just reply to the points that you raise in your post.

Firstly, I will try to follow any advice that I haven’t already tried. All of the years that I have been suffering from SAD, I have been told by medical experts that I have been suffering from depression. Therefore, I have been trying all of the self-help techniques for dealing with depression, and trying different medications. The advice that I am receiving is no different to anything that I have already tried. Depression is just one symptom of SAD, and no amount of exercise or anything else designed to relieve depression has any impact on my headache, or level of concentration; but it does of course lift my mood. Light therapy is the only treatment that has been new to me, but it doesn’t appear to work in my case. Nevertheless, I am hoping that I will be able to try a more powerful/dangerous device since my symptoms do seem to persist, indicating that I may possibly require even more intense light than the average SAD sufferer. I have followed all of the standard light therapy variations in our main sources of published advice, but to no avail. I will persevere with light therapy in the autumn just to see if it works after my symptoms have reached their minimum severity – besides I have to remember that venlafaxine was adversely affecting me through my initial trials of light therapy, and that my symptoms were at their worst.

Do I think I have the world record on SAD severity? No, but I have to admit that I think that I have a rougher deal than a lot of you. My constant headache is something that no one else seems to suffer, and that is one reason that I cannot take full responsibility for what I write. I do my best to read other peoples posts thoroughly, to proof read my own, and to try to think clearly about exactly what I am writing; but the way my concentration is shot, and the constant pain in my head makes it all just a little bit tricky. I have given up reading fiction, because I can only retain the previous few sentences – I have no way to follow the plot forgetting who is who and who did what where etc. I managed to get through ‘Winter Blues’ within a fortnight because I was desperate to try to be able to help myself. Without the proofing tools in MS Word my posts would be a complete mess - at best one of this length takes me a couple of hours to finish.

I really do wish that I could put the idea of suicide to bed, but this comes to the crux of how you have helped me. The overwhelming message that I remember from ‘Winter Blue’ was that SAD is a treatable condition - well I am still waiting for treatment. Yes, I am seeking attention, and I do want a magic cure; I believe that is what is generally referred to as ‘a cry for help’. Thanks for making it obvious Siddy, I owe you one (I am not being sarcastic by the way). I cannot cope, and I think that I may be heading for a breakdown. Tomorrow, I will crawl back down to my GP, and do whatever it takes to get the help that I need once and for all. Thanks again for just being you Siddy.

Sorry all for exposing you to my desperate selfish baggage – I seem to be apologising a lot lately. Good luck with all of your personal SAD battles, and with any other problems that you have. Alas, I am too weak to show my words around here.

TTFN

Joel

Hello Joel,
I think firstly I do hope you can find some relief particularly from the headaches. Do you think the headache could be contributed to stress and frustration? Are you still using the light box for ten hours as you mentioned in one of your postings. Have you had a bran scan to check for tumors?

In my experience battling sad is just that and generally it requires an arsenal of weapons and techniques as focusing on one thing I believe isn't enough to get through.

Light therapy for me is about staying awake in the day although most of the time I want to be horizontal even after using it on dark days. It is a 'pick up' but for me doesn't do everything and is certainly not a cure. I also have dawn simulator on each morning as well.
Meds are useful in the darkest times although don't 'cure it' but i.e. prozac takes the edge of it.
Regular exercise is important otherwise if I try to ignore it I go to pot as well.
Reducing my stress, i.e. not doing anything which isn't essential can also mess me up at the worst times. This also comes along with lowering my expectations of what I can achieve.
Eating properly and not binging are essential although almost impossible, prozac helps with that.
Planning i.e. Christmas shopping in August (that reminds me!) otherwise come December I am a mess and t desn't happen.
Doing a diary of how I was was one of the best things I did as the next year I felt reassured that It wasn't me and I knew (for example) the panic attacks were just that.

Ultimately even after all of this I can still feel crap but that is the luck of the draw and if I lok at how some people are placed on this planet I really can't complain too much.

I can't remember if this is complete but it is an idea of how I manage and it is basically to suggest that you try a combined regime in the future if the doctor doesn't provide any solutions.

good luck

Just an update on my own original whinge thread.

My psychiatrist is actually referring me to the Southampton SAD clinic again, and suggested that it was only my GP that referred me originally without her support. He said that she pulled the plug on the first referral. Someone is telling porkies again.

Since I am deriorating rapidly, I wanted to try bupropion, but my shrink refuses to give it me for depression. She won't accept that I want to quit smoking, just because I don't smoke. Following her advice, I am trying 100 mg of sertraline instead. I now have difficulty sleeping, garo-intestinal problems, difficulting urinating, and a slight difficulty coordinating movement.

The day after starting the sertraline, my Pharos-Max arrived from Outside In. Using it early in the morning has been tricky due to the insomia caused by the medication - I haven't slept properly, until after I should have been getting up. I have used the light box for the past 2 days and with a combination of that and the SSRI, I am walking about feeling slightly pissed. Unfortunately, I still have all of my other SAD symptoms, including my headache. The sensation is the same slightly tingly brain one that I used to get for a matter of minutes after treatment with my old SAD lamp or the GoLite.

Is this a all a good omen I wonder. At least the nausea from the pills seems to have disappeared today.

In other news, I put in a clainm for incapacity benefit last Thursday. Additionally, a job broker from Royal British Legion Industries is supposed to be helping me find work.

Keep fighting back people.

Joel xXx

Thanks for the info Cazjenson.

I've had my headache for nearly two decades and it has disappeared once during the complete remission of my other SAD symptoms. The last time I had an eye test was after I scratched my left cornea on some dried out bracken, in 1997. I managed to gouge the mark of Zorro into it during a night exercise on my final phase one TA training weekend. I don't think I have a sight problem, but it would be worth eliminating it as a contributory factor.

Thanks again, and look after yourself too.

Joel xXx

Hi Joel. Its uncanny how much i can relate to what you've said. I too have only diagnosed myself this year. I used to do drugs a few years back and so atributed all my problems to their aftermath. I've probably suffered this crap since early teens but with the drugs, the meds and the broken brain it's hard to put the pieces together. Im fortunate enough to be employed, which if nothing else affords me a place to hide away from the rest of humanity. Ive completely isolated myself fom the "normal" way of life because its so overwhelming. In the summer im still not 100% but i can hold a conversation and even make people laugh which is hugely rewarding. Ive just taken the rest of the week off work following an embarrasing start where i broke down crying in front of my boss following an innocent comment - "For Gods sake smile, it might never happen!" I didn't go home that day but the rest of the week got progressively worse possibly because the temporary Doctor wouldn't prescribe me ADS because "the government advised otherwise", so i would have to wait another week until the resident Doc. could deal me the junk! I wish i could have put together a meaningful post but my consentration is shot! beats watching the TV anyway. It seems like me,you appreciate what a fantastic gift life is but are completely unable to unwrap it, now that truely is SAD. Im aware how jumbled and irratic this post is but its made me feel better jabbing away at the keyboard! I wish you and everyone else all the very best of luck for the coming months. David

Hello Margaret,

have you taken Prozac before? I know for me taking the meds always feels like a defeat that my regime is not working but I know from past experiences I need meds as well to function better. I normally spend weeks mulling it over trying to leave it as late as possible but from my many previous experiences it normally ends up in a crash without them.

I started the early this year and I feel they are helping me and my motivation seems good for the time of year.

hope this helps

Hi Joel and all,

This is my first post and all, but I couldn't help but reply. I completely understand about the anger part, Joel. For me, anger at the little things is my most uncontrolable SAD thing, other than the depression, of course. I call it my "bear," and that also includes my craving for breads and sweets and my desire to simply sleep the winter away. This year has been worse than usual, and the bear has made so many appearances I actually named it. Now if my husband asks where I'm going I simple say "Gunthor wants snack!" and we laugh about it instead of cry.

And I guess that is something. I've been where you are, Joel. I simply can't remember a time that I haven't been seasonal, and until a few years ago, suicidal. And it took until my late twenties to even figure out it was SAD. And, until this year I had the headaches every day. They ended up being unrelated - I have allergies all year round to dust, pollen, mold, dogs, you name it I have it and didn't realize it because instead of a stuffy nose and sneezing I had sinus headaches. Especially worse in winter when the house is closed up, the furnace blowing around all that dust and dog dander I don't have the energy to clean. Now I'm on a couple allergy meds that aren't perfect, but help alot.

Realizing what you have is the first step. Getting a good therapist (and I mean a GOOD one you trust who has both a sense of humor and flexibility) is the second. Everything from there is experimental. I do okay with light, but have really scary reactions to the drugs. Nothing makes the depression go away completely, but it makes for enough good days that life is worth living. I have really good winters (last year!) and really bad winters (this fall, so far). Got a treadmill and some DVDs of old Star Trek shows and that actually helps, though I hate to exercise. Life can be worth living even if you don't feel like it right now - try everything - you really don't know what is going to work. I've just ordered an extra-bright LED dawn simulator lamp in hopes that will get me doing a little better than I am now. Keep trying - the light therapy didn't work for me in earlier fall when I first started, but really helps in darker winter - and know that all of us are out here scrambling to figure out what the heck works and how to fine-tune it as our bodies change.

Kelley

Hi Joel.

Not sure I can add anything which hasn't been said before, but like you say, you have to keep on trying.

Do try and keep up the cycling, and try joining a club (they are a lot of fun! plus I find forcing myself to go on the club runs helps keep me sociable).

In anycase, look after yourself.

regards

--
Brian

Cheers Brian, and you take care too.

The problem about forcing myself to do things involving socialising (including working), other than in the Summer, is that the stress and anxiety create a positive feedback loop escallating my SAD symptoms. Gradually, I reach the total shut down, and I want just to die point :( .

Before I knew I had SAD, I was too busy trying to sort out what direction to go in during the summer, rather than making the most of my reduced SAD symptoms to socialise. Usually, I would have been working, and lining up educational courses for the autumn to get my life going in a direction that I thought would be beneficial for me :roll: .

My psychotherapist reckons that she can help me on the anxiety front :) - I'm sceptical.

I told my shrink about the sertraline not working, and the insomnia. I am about to start taking 15 mg of mirtazapine in the evenings to help combat the insomnia, to help F up my immune system, and to give me an insatiable appetite. I would have had the drug by now, but SAD confusion caused me to miss my appointment with my GP. I thought Thursday was Friday, so when given an appointment for 'tomorrow morning', I stored it in my mind as Saturday morning. Later I realised that the day was in fact Thursday, but I still had my appointment memorised as being on Saturday. Friday evening I mentioned the appointment to my friend's mum, and found out that the clinic no longer opens on Saturdays - the appointment was of course for Friday morning :roll: .

I have kept the pharos max, because I couldn't be bothered with the hassle of returning it - in more debt :roll: . Currently I have stopped light therapy for a while, so that I can try it again soon to see if it does have any effect.

Resigning myself to doing nothing, and just concentrating on getting safely through the winter, has begun paying dividends as usual - my headache is down to a much more managable level :) .

Still no news on my benefit claim, or my referral to the Southampton SAD Clinic :roll: .

I wish I could do some serious writing, but the only topics that I can manage to produce any quantity on are my basic feelings and opinions. Even then, the quality is somewhat lacking :( .

I hope you're all doing as well as possible.

Joel xXx

PS Phantom quoter guest, if you're going to post, you could at least inject some humour to cheer us up a bit.

Good luck with the mirtazapine Joel. My doctor put me on a high starting dose when I came to him in tears, and one pill knocked me out for two days -- it definitely has a sedative effect so hopefully it will do the trick for you.
My GP also told me that most of his patients don't get the weight gain sometimes associated with this particular drug. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, it's just what he said. I didn't continue to take the mirtazapine because I was a walking zombie with it.
I'm sure you will find something that works for you Joel, it's good that you haven't given up.
Linda.

Not going to reply to other posts; just need to vent:

No benefits, job, life, friends, love, help, peace, referral, proper sleep, sense of worth, one to listen.

Light therapy does work, but is only effective as the ADs - something majorly lacking still.

Stopped sertraline and mirtazapine; started duloxetine - still feel inhuman.

Is nice to see some success stories here though.

Oh well, all I achieved yesterday was getting an appointment with my shrink, Dr Kittler, brought forward by 2 weeks (17 January 2006). Dr Hulme, who I considered to be the most caring GP at my local clinic turned out to be like all the rest. All the health professionals that I am seeing admit that there is nothing that they can do for me, so what is the point of me seeing them anymore? I lo found out that the PCT won’t fund a referral to anywhere else, so apparently my life is only worth -£6.50 to society – that s less than worthless. Guess it is time to settle my finances, make final arrangements, and check out then.

See you all around, and I wish you all the best for your futures.

Joel xXx

Hello Joel,

Just found this great place myself. This is the worst winter I have ever had and finally found my real problem (SAD).

I sincerely hope you don't check out. I was there w/ the gun in my mouth when I felt the presence of a deceased uncle. He came to me and stopped me. He told me to stay around awhile. I used to wonder sometimes why?
I have worked very hard most all my life (40 now). I work a job (seasonal of coarse), now where men 15 years younger than me quit after a day. Some just disappear after a few hours. Others scoff at our quota as crazy. The heaviest thing I have ever carried was my brother to his grave after he blew his own head off. That was 9 years ago. 2 years ago my uncle did the same, completely unexpected to us. Having lived in an area slammed hard in the 80's economically I have lost at least half a dozen friends and neighbors this way over the years.
At times I still wonder why my uncle stopped me but having now lived through those deaths, seeing the grief, I know why he stopped me. If not for me, for them, the relatives and friends, and knowing an officer who sometimes has trouble dealing w/ life because she has been called to so many of these scenes.

I sincerely hope you don't check out.

Is there really no way you can move somewhere better. Morrison once sang "I've never been so broke that I couldn't leave town". I have always tried to think that way. If it ever gets too bad I know w/ a little food money these boots can walk me in the direction I want to go.

No matter your location you need to make enough money to eat. They may not be glamorous but there are basic jobs everywhere that will at least do that. Get there and don't you think your improving attitude will do the rest? W/ your intelligence I'm certain that it will. Can you cook? Sailboats are always looking for crew. Where do most usually sail? Sunny locales. Where do they sail? Maybe somewhere you want to go. :wink:

I can not save you as I am still trying to save myself but I had to respond to the suicide thing.

:D :D :D I hope everyone has a great day. :D :D :D

Hello

I think wayward son touched a chord when he talked about a prescence which was there to support him. I do believe and have personally received evidence via mediums (proper ones) that we are being supported by souls who have passed over to the spiritual plane. Joel I think nothing I say will change your position but from what I understand we are down here to learn and test ourselves in the physical world. I would say to you talk to anyone you have a connection with in the spirit world remember the nice experiences and love you had for them and ask for help.

If you top yourself you have to come back to the physical world and try again I'm afraid 'nothingness' after death is a nice idea but isn't reality.

Doctors are frustrating............................... :roll:

Hey Joel, could I use your experience to do a project?

We are creating a nonprofit, educational website for the ThinkQuest competition.

Our final website will be published in the ThinkQuest Library, a free educational resource located at http://www.thinkquest.org. We will honor your copyright by giving your organization full credit and citing you as one of our sources.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,
David
madhamster@gmail.com

Joel, my suggestion would be going to some kind of UK equivalent to the Urgent Care Center (not a hospital, but more urgent than an appointment to a clinic) and telling them you need to see a doctor. You need to find help immediatly.