Blue light (safety, efficacy) and seasonal Thyroid changes

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Jeff
joined 13 Nov 2006
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Posted by Jeff, 04:09 16 November 2006

The rep at Apollo told me that the blue light is more effective when not mixed with the "counterproductive" other bandwiths of light. He said that you need to use a florescent for 30-60 mins, but when usinmg blue by itself, only 15-30 mins.

I asked him if he could refer me to some research showing that blue light is more useful by itself.

He sent me 4 documents of research abstracts/summaries, which I am yet to read. He sent me two documents based on some research which supposedly shows the safety of blue light, which I have read. Obviously, I am not too concerned about safety, and neither are ethey, if I am using a light that puts out at least 2x as much blue as the LED blue.
Regarding the research, of course anything from a company with an enormously vested interest in having people believe in their product is to be reviewed carefully for credibility, or else just ignored outright.

I see there doesn't appear to be any attaching of documents here, so if anyone else wants to read them, let me know.

I agree that the lack of standards, and the persistant lack of recognition and acceptance by the medical community of light therapy, is allowing these companies to take advantage of us.

As for acceptance, I am still unsure myself that I really believe that my light does anything for me, so I remain on the fence. Naturally I can't say what it does since I refuse to go without it in the winter (I dont even want to risk it).

There is research out there suggesting that the thyroid (and I believe probably many body systems) has a seasonal fluctuation, possibly more related to cold than light. This could imply that for many people, other things may be the problem causing their SAD, and light therapy may be useless for it.

marky999
joined 10 Nov 2006
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Posted by marky999, 10:22 16 November 2006

Hi Jeff

Well i know alot of people will shout at me for this but , I have a apollo Giolite being delivered to me today . Im only hiring it out for a month to see if it is any different to my Brite box .
I have done a bit of surfing the net reading articles on blue light therapy , and did see some quite interesting write ups about it , but like you say it could all be a sales pitch .
Have you tried the giolite ?

Marky :D

BWAD Squirrel
joined 24 Jul 2005
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Posted by BWAD Squirrel, 12:38 16 November 2006

Hi Jeff

I meant to reply to your other thread, but you know how it is at this time of year. A more recent SAD study has implied that all SAD sufferers have a sleep phase disorder component to there condition:

The circadian basis of winter depression by Alfred J. Lewy et al. (2006)

After reading a number of people’s descriptions of their SAD symptoms, I wonder whether it is possible for a pure sleep phase disorder to occur with a seasonal pattern; and therefore whether a sleep phase disorder could be misdiagnosed as SAD. Then again could a seasonal sleep phase disorder be a form of SAD that exhibits the least other effects on the endocrine system?

Light box manufacturers, especially Apollo Health with there Golite series of products, are trying to cash in on the sleep phase realignment connection to reducing SAD symptom severity. Whilst realignment is the cure for people with a pure sleep phase disorder, it has only been shown to help reduce the severity of symptoms of an SAD sufferer proportionally to any sleep phase disorder component of their SAD. Only adequate sunlight consistently produces complete remission in SAD sufferers.

I’ve been trying to research sleep phase disorders to see if there is a seasonal pattern to their severity, but there is a lack of detailed information in this area – certainly not enough evidence to support my hypothesis. Most places studying sleep disorders focus on the more dangerous conditions of sleep apnoea and narcolepsy. Since you have both SAD and DSPS could you please elucidate on how they both affect you, particularly if you have PSDS during the summer?

If the information that you got from Apollo Health is more detailed than the information available on their website, then I would be grateful if you could email it to me.

Marky, if the info you read about the Golite was from the two websites that you posted links to, then be aware that the info on both was copied straight from Apollo’s own website.

Welcome Jeff. Good luck with your Golite Marky.

Take care everyone

Joel

PS Remember that everything mentioned is only my own personal view.

Jeff
joined 13 Nov 2006
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Posted by Jeff, 22:28 16 November 2006

Hi Joel,

I look forward to exchanging information and research, and answering your questions, etc... However, I have a dreadful appointment with the psychiatrist in 1 hour, and need to leave now. I will get to this sometime soon.

Marky, yes I have tried the golite - tried it for 3 weeks... as usual with light therapy and SAD, it is very difficult to say whether it did anything for me that my IV florescent couldn't do (an dstill unclear how much, if anything, the florescent is doing for me). In any case, I find that there clearly is insufficient research to support the blue LEDs efficacy, and too much research suggesting that it may be either useless or dangerous or both. I needed the 210 bucks for other things... Good luck with it though - you get to try it for a few weeks and can still return it. Let us know how it goes.

Be back later,

Jeff

BWAD Squirrel
joined 24 Jul 2005
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Posted by BWAD Squirrel, 17:35 17 November 2006

The following are my personal conclusions drawn from Apollo Health’s own literature, and the literature that they cited to Jeff in order to promote their Golite. I have not cited my own references, because if I had the ability to produce proper scientific write ups at this time of year, then I would have finished my degree. If you would like to read the information that my opinions are formed from, then you can kindly ask Jeff to forward his stuff from Apollo Health; or maybe request further information from Apollo Health directly.

Apollo Health claims that the Golite is safe, in terms of the blue light hazard: Their cited literature indicates that the Golite is safer than 10,000 lux light therapy devices, but that both are much safer than direct sunlight.

Apollo Health claims that other wavelengths produced by 10,000 lux light therapy units are counterproductive: In fact the opposite appears to be true, because other visible wavelengths have an effect on the circadian rhythms of mice without melanopsin-containing retinal ganglion cells (which respond to the narrow band of blue light) – I’m afraid that most chronobiological experiments are conducted on animals, because humans object to being killed and cut up. We already have evidence that purely adjusting the sleep phase of SAD sufferers is not a cure; so maybe the effects of other wavelengths are important for other processes - the reason why sunlight provides the only known cure for SAD? Blue light is mainly responsible for suppressing melatonin, but white light from 10,000 lux light therapy contains twice the amount than that emitted by the Golite; however, iris constriction and other factors complicate matters.

Apollo Health’s study of bluewave versus dim red light for the treatment of SAD was a joke; even more useless (too small, biased, and unscientific) than most pharmacological treatment studies - It wouldn’t even make the grade of toilet paper in my house. The main thing that I could see from their results, if I used a similar unscientific interpretation, is that dim red light appears to have potential as an SAD treatment too. Their future studies are too small, and will only serve one purpose: they will be quoted in promotional literature. However, the only scientific conclusion from them should be: These studies were too small and scientifically flawed at every level to draw conclusions from, so we must conduct bigger and more scientifically sound studies.

Apollo Health claim that only they have bluewave technology: Perhaps they should look at the specifications of blue LEDs then? All blue LEDs inherently produce the ‘bluewave’ spectrum. As far as I can ascertain their patent on bluewave technology for the treatment of mood and circadian rhythm disorders via the optical pathway never made it past the patent application process; I wonder why? However, ‘bluewave’ is a trademark registered to Apollo Health, and they do have a patent for using what is essentially the Golite to deliver light to the blood supply of a human body through a non-ocular area of skin:

‘A portable light delivery device for delivering light to the blood supply of a human body through a nonocular area of skin on the body includes an attachment member, a portable light delivery unit connected to the attachment member and a portable power supply. The portable light delivery unit provides one or more wavelengths of light within a specifically determined range of intensity and a specifically determined angle of illumination. A portable control unit may be included on the light delivery device for selectively controlling the light delivery unit. A programming device associated with the control unit selectively changes the programming of the controller. The light delivery device is portably secured to a region of the body having a substantial amount of blood vessels near the surface thereof to deliver light to the blood supply of the body for treating mood disorders, seasonal affective disorder and disorders involving circadian rhythm and sleep.’ US Patent

Therefore, I suppose that they could claim that only they have the right to use the term ‘bluewave’, since it is their registered trademark. They do not however currently have a patent for the use of the Golite to treat SAD via the ocular pathway (the eyes); their patent only applies to skin. Perhaps the ocular use of the Golite is not patentable due to the existence of technology already in the public domain, which our eyes are exposed to regularly, such as LEDs and light bulbs etcetera?

Conclusion: The Golite is useful for phase shifting the circadian melatonin secretion rhythm in humans, particularly if you have optical problems using 10,000 lux white light. However, 10,000 lux white light is arguably better at it, because it contains more blue light. In the treatment of SAD, 10,000 lux white light is also more advantageous, because it contains other optical wavelengths, which also potentially have effects on circadian rhythms. Considering the exact mechanism causing SAD is not known, and that sunlight is the cure; it is probably best to try to replicate sunlight as closely as possibly, whilst minimising the unwanted side effects and health risks.

The author would like to thank Jeff and Apollo Health for their help. Additionally, the author declares that he has no financial interests, but that he is an advocate for the prevention of exploitation of SAD sufferers.

Jeff
joined 13 Nov 2006
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Posted by Jeff, 03:34 3 December 2006

Hi Jeff

I meant to reply to your other thread, but you know how it is at this time of year. A more recent SAD study has implied that all SAD sufferers have a sleep phase disorder component to there condition:

The circadian basis of winter depression by Alfred J. Lewy et al. (2006).

.....I’ve been trying to research sleep phase disorders to see if there is a seasonal pattern to their severity, but there is a lack of detailed information in this area – certainly not enough evidence to support my hypothesis. Most places studying sleep disorders focus on the more dangerous conditions of sleep apnoea and narcolepsy. Since you have both SAD and DSPS could you please elucidate on how they both affect you, particularly if you have PSDS during the summer?

Have been so busy lately at end of semester with school work, I have only now gotten back to this thread.

My DSPS is present all year. However, it is obvious to me that I tend to find it easier to get up a couple of hours earlier, and usually go to bed 1-2 hours earlier, in the summer.

In the winter, I am usually going to sleep in about the 3:30 - 5:30 range, and getting up around Noon. So clearly, the issue is still very pronounced in the summer. With the SAD, it is much easier to get up in general in the summer, than in the winter. There is obviously some relevance of the DSPS to the SAD.

BWAD Squirrel
joined 24 Jul 2005
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Posted by BWAD Squirrel, 22:46 3 December 2006

Thanks Jeff

You are indicating what I suspected might be the case. Is it possible that your mood disorder that occurs in the winter is purely due to DSPS and perhaps daylight saving time changes causing you to be more sleep deprived in winter? Have you ever been able to stick to a natural sleep pattern in winter to see if your mood improves, or have your other commitments (work, education, family, social life) always prevented it?

This isn’t the Spanish Inquisition, so you don’t have to answer. I am just curious to find out if DSPS alone could account for some cases of SAD, since many people who say they have SAD seem to be describing the symptoms of DSPS. This is not an attempt to put people down for not really having SAD; In fact it is an attempt to do the opposite. To know that you only really have DSPS is actually a good thing, since the correct treatment (really sticking to a sleep regime) and/or lifestyle changes (working around your natural sleep times) will provide a much better quality of life.

As ever I wield more questions than answers.

Hope you are doing well my friend

Joel x

Jeff
joined 13 Nov 2006
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Posted by Jeff, 08:54 17 December 2006

I usually go into deep and VERY long lasting major depressive episodes in the winter and Spring. This usually runs for about 6 months and starts somewhere between late Nov and mid Dec. For about 3-4 weeks, I can usually feel it creeping up and some of the signs begin to become obvious, but then the other 90% of it usually tends to rather suddenly hit me all at once over aperiod of about a week. As mentioned before, it then usually lasts for about 6 months.

The DSPS is present all year, it's just a little worse in Winter and Spring.

This is my best year ever so far. It is mid Dec and I have long since begun to wind down (hence my lack of appearances on these forums). I have gone in to another one of my trademark winter down periods (I have some sort of SAD, although I don't believe it is the classic "light deprivation = psychiatric depression"). I won't call it a depression yet, because I am simply unprepared to accept that and refuse to give in, despite my 15 year track record of major depressive episodes in the winter and spring.

In regards to my SAD, I think it is more "physical" than "mental", although mental issues ARE physical... I word it thusly (wrongly) because people will get the point that way. It annoys me to no end when people maker that wrong and ridiculous distinction, but I use it myself too. Anyway, I suspect that my SAD is more hormonal than an issue of light deprivation induced neurotransmitter problems. Having said that, i definately still am MI, it's just that there are other physical issues exaccerbating the MI.

I have lately discovered that I am deficient in progesterone and cortisol. Progesterone is a cortisol precursor. Long story short, I am apparantly suffering from low adrenal function, and the #1 symptoms listed for that? Fatigue, exhastion, and severe mental fog all upon waking, and feeling better as the day goes on - this describes me exactly.

In any case, my research has mostly come to a screeching halt. But I expect to be back to about 80% by late summer or fall - my up time of year. And with any luck, I will never sink too low this winter to begin with.

I am hopeful because a few months ago I made drastic diet changes, eating only organic food, cutting out ALL refined sugar, eliminating meat and dairy, and eating a lot of raw foods. I supplement my diet to make sure I get adequate fat and protein, as well as various Vits and Mins that are of concern to vegetarians. I also started my light therapy a few months earlier this year than last, and I am trying a couple of herbal supplements too.

I would like to be more involved on these forums and so many other things I have left hanging, but lately I am sleeping most of the time and out of it for most of the rest of the time. But I won't be beaten.

Apologies for the run on post.

J

Jeff
joined 13 Nov 2006
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Posted by Jeff, 08:58 17 December 2006

I have adapted my life around my natural sleep schedule as well as I may. But not only does the world not operate on my schedule, but the aforementioned adaptations do not eliminate any of the other consequences of DSPS - such as light deprivation, and generally feeling like crap all of the time.

Apologies if there is a whining tone, it is not my intention to start a self pity party here.

I hope you are doing well also, Joel,

Jeff

Dr. Esser
joined 5 Jan 2009
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Posted by Dr. Esser, 18:40 5 January 2009

>Is it possible that your mood disorder that occurs in the winter is purely due to DSPS and perhaps daylight saving time changes causing you to be more sleep deprived in winter?

It's worth noting that DST actually makes like worse for DSPS sufferers in the SUMMER. During the winter, my boss wants me to get to work at 9:00 and my brain thinks it's 9:00. In the summer, I have to be at work at 9:00, but my brain thinks its actually 8:00. DSPS support groups are one of the few areas of society where DST is despised, not praised.

>since the correct treatment (really sticking to a sleep regime) and/or lifestyle changes (working around your natural sleep times)

Again, FYI, there is still no scientific evidence that "sticking to sleep regime" is an effective treatment for DSPS. And out of hundreds of DSPS patients I've seen, I've yet to find a single example of successful treatment. The only agreed-upon "treatment" is to adapt your life to the body's natural schedule.

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